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Originally Posted by harmonygirl Maybe free will is a necessary illusion. Wouldn't we all go squirrely if we truly believed that there was no real choice? I don't know if I believe that order and chaos are distinct. To me, the Mandelbrot set (sp?) unified the chaos of nature. Sorry I missed this discussion. |
EXACTLY!
And welcome - nice name by the way, Harmonygirl.
This is EXACTLY the view used in the Human Design System where No Choice is fundamental - the mechanics of consciousness in material form. And this is an experimental process within a specific framework, there are now perhaps half a million people across the planet experimenting with the "No Choice" as a lifestyle, including myself, as an empirical experiment.
It is a very subtle path to even THINK we have no choice. And that was something missing in the social froth of everybody talking at once - the clearest ideas remain here as people have time to post them properly.
But there are so many advantages and dangers of the No Choice idea - and I use this phrase as it is clearer than Not Free Will. To have WILL and it is not FREE is exactly the essence here, and I did not sense much grasped at the linguistic level of what we were chatting about, although I had technical problems and so on.
The opposite of Free Will is "MY" will is NOT mine at all. So WHOSE will is it? The danger is obvious - hitler, manchurian candidates, etc. I have spent 16 years training in increasingly advanced forms of hypnosis, following a very bad experience for me in 1989, I wanted to find out what Tony Robbins had done to cause me such a terrible reaction. In those moments, of course, when hypnotism goes wrong, sleepwalking takes over.
The LOGICAL conclusion from Harmonygirl's post - is that we are all sleepwalking.
The awareness of this sleepwalking, - I am using my own way to describe this - I believe corresponds to the concept of spiritual awakening sought in Human Design. This is neither enlightenment nor endarkenment, which form particularly extreme forms of awakening. Awakening is a term for watching your life happen as if it is a movie, enjoying the best times as "I", and accepting the suffering as just how it all works, breathing out and in.
So what I am saying is that many many many people HAVE gone gerbil to realise they have no choice.
I remain in love with dialectics. I have my cake and I eat it. I have two hands, and in one I think this and in the other I think the opposite. A magical wave of all intermediate possibilities naturally is there too, and I find this a most wonderful solution to many many questions. Dialectics is really something becuase it is beyond words and concepts in that way - it is Free Will AND/JUXTAPOSED/STIRRING like a flowing thing of different rainbow ideas/AND No Choice.
Or am I already a squirrel?