[dleviwing]

Hi Lloyd;
The word “geneses” infers creationism or something from nothing scenarios; thus the current standard model of a singularity is a geneses model. Toronics is not a something from nothing view but, a view that everything has always existed. In short, no beginning. In your view I see only that you wish to separate the concepts of motion from the concepts of substance. The Toronic concept is a progressive deductive reasoning to determine the minimum requirements for the formation of a universe. One substance with properties needed to propagate form and interactions, one place for it all to happen, and one event (a collision) to start the process of the universe.

You seem to have an illogical view that matter is both infinite and finite. Only the place or void can be infinite, all else is finite. Also you wish to state that the motion of matter is infinite and finite. This too is irrational. Now if your interpretation of the universe is to say that it represents the place for matter, the infinite is appropriate and finite is not.

Regardless of any of our scenarios of a beginning, the fact is, they are beyond the reach of current scientific confirmation. I prefer deductive reasoning with known behavior of today’s observations to determine the most probable cause than I would to any concept based on belief. If you study the properties and behavior of fluidic Bose Einstein condensates and plasma type matter, you will begin to realize what is happening as matter is taken from one extreme of motion to the other extreme of motion. (randomized plasma to uniform fluidic) I have worked in both areas and designed the instruments used to study them. I hope you will understand that I’m not in agreement with your comments, but recognize you have the skills to understand the pure science of it all. I fine that you are making the scenario more complex than it needs to be. I’ve been there, done that.

BTW: The lowest entropy possible is a single degree of freedom of motion. As I told JonD, that is a velocity vector of absolute motion. That is also the highest bonding state of matter.