[Fredrick]

Thank you, Austin, for supporting both Nobody and me in your response. It feels a little bit like an infighting since both Nobody and I are very close in both of us regarding the nothing as vital to understanding everything.

I think the essential breakthrough has to come through exposing the truth about language. If I start out using Nobody's thought process then I can truly claim that not a single word has any actual meaning, for words are nothing but sounds, are nothing but meaningless. I then speak like Nobody. Yet through the collective of speakers of a language words do transmit truthful end real meanings from one person to another. As such, language is real in that the truth is transmitted — captured in a package of non-sensical sounds to anyone not familiar to the language. If you remember a previous post of mine, I state that the truth is contained like a ball, existing on an inside while the outside is a realm of half-truth (the real contained within the abstract).

If that is what this comes down to, then this is nothing but a linguistic debate, Nobody. I do not think I can value the word 'non-existence' as a real word when refering to the universe — and I know I place much in this conversation because there is not much we differ about — but it undermines all my words and any word ever spoken. I don't mind if you feel that way, but then there is no value in conversing. I feel you are taking me to the end of the actual meanings of my/your/our words.

I do not mind if we are the product of some mind thinking, because the product of that mind (or minds) is still real. If you consider the product not real then the mind cannot be real either for what is a mind that cannot produce real products: useless. Only when a mind can actually produce products (i.e our reality) does the mind receive the status of worthy of consideration. So, no real product, no real mind.