[N0B0DY]

"Otherwise a 'void' would be 'something' that moves."

Dave and Lloyd,

Based on the comment above, from pif, I have to avoid this thread. I just have no clue why that would be inferred.

I think we are saying the same things in different ways, but you both seem to be very western-minded in that you would separate mind and body when it really can't be proven that the universe exists without observation.

As an aside, Lloyd, the background-independent theories are background-irrelevant to our debate. I conceded many times, so that you don't have to keep repeating yourself. You just don't understand my references, and brush them off as metaphysical nonsense, when they can be seen in a stricter scientific sense than your relational references that can be classified as metaphysical. Yet, the metaphysical is important in some senses to lead to the new research you claim will resolve all of physics problems.