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Whys · **Re: Sound of One Hand Clapping -** 03-19-2008, 04:29 PM

Prophat,

There is absolutely a certainty. You already know what it is. There is however, no empirical certainty. That much we can agree on, despite our inability to prove it. ;)

Again, the sound of one hand clapping is not clap-clap. It is a reference to a Buddhist Koan and monks in training are required to think on it for days, weeks, months, what ever it takes. The issue tends to be one of truth verses meaning. The notion is not that the fingers clap on one hand. The notion is that we can take a complete idea, two hands, clapping, and sound, then break them apart as if they can exist independently from one another. The point of the Koan, is when you take away one hand, the remaining concept becomes absurd. Things can only exist in relationship. What a thing is, is defined by its relationships with everything else. Take away one hand, and the idea of clapping and creating sound becomes absurd. Tho the concepts can be broken down and studied individually, they cease to have the same meaning because we changed their inter-relationship.

You mention the Venn Diagram. I like your example. My example is the color wheel representing emitted light. As you say, we can have a circle for each color in our diagram. In the center of that diagram, all the colors converge. With emitted light, that would be white. My point is that the center element is not the same thing as all the individual elements combined. It is it's own thing. And as such, any Theory of Everything that relies on a point convergence of all ideas is not going to explain everything, as much as it will simply explain itself.

There are plenty of circular arguments that proclaim to explain everything. It is even possible that there is already one in existence that is true. Personally I doubt it, because I'm one of little faith.

Yes, reality could be finite. That sure would makes things simpler. :) Rarely is life so obliging.

I agree with the probability approach, I'm just not sure it truly rises to the level of a Theory of Everything. I mean I could give one right now. "IS" <shrug> It's probable. :]

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Whys Orange Belt Status: Offline Posts: 21 Thanks Given: 0 Thanked 2x in 2 Posts Join Date: Mar 2008 Rep Power: 0	Re: Sound of One Hand Clapping - 03-19-2008, 04:29 PM Prophat, There is absolutely a certainty. You already know what it is. There is however, no empirical certainty. That much we can agree on, despite our inability to prove it. ;) Again, the sound of one hand clapping is not clap-clap. It is a reference to a Buddhist Koan and monks in training are required to think on it for days, weeks, months, what ever it takes. The issue tends to be one of truth verses meaning. The notion is not that the fingers clap on one hand. The notion is that we can take a complete idea, two hands, clapping, and sound, then break them apart as if they can exist independently from one another. The point of the Koan, is when you take away one hand, the remaining concept becomes absurd. Things can only exist in relationship. What a thing is, is defined by its relationships with everything else. Take away one hand, and the idea of clapping and creating sound becomes absurd. Tho the concepts can be broken down and studied individually, they cease to have the same meaning because we changed their inter-relationship. You mention the Venn Diagram. I like your example. My example is the color wheel representing emitted light. As you say, we can have a circle for each color in our diagram. In the center of that diagram, all the colors converge. With emitted light, that would be white. My point is that the center element is not the same thing as all the individual elements combined. It is it's own thing. And as such, any Theory of Everything that relies on a point convergence of all ideas is not going to explain everything, as much as it will simply explain itself. There are plenty of circular arguments that proclaim to explain everything. It is even possible that there is already one in existence that is true. Personally I doubt it, because I'm one of little faith. Yes, reality could be finite. That sure would makes things simpler. :) Rarely is life so obliging. I agree with the probability approach, I'm just not sure it truly rises to the level of a Theory of Everything. I mean I could give one right now. "IS" <shrug> It's probable. :]