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Re: Baseball Near The Edge Of The Universe
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neutralino
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Re: Baseball Near The Edge Of The Universe - 04-18-2008, 04:03 AM

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Originally Posted by stevemc2 View Post
I spread out my thoughts here for clarity...

I don't understand the concept that there is no "edge/boundary" of the universe.

If space-time has been expanding since the big bang, then by inherent definition it has an outer edge of it's expansion.

To say there is no "edge of the universe," then to me that means the universe is infinite.
Not necessarily. Imagine a sphere, and suppose we are living in a two dimensional world on the surface of this sphere. Note that we are not aware and cannot move in the radial dimension. Now, if this sphere expands, then we see, as beings living on the 2d surface, the distances between all objects increase; i.e. we see space expanding. Now, our surface is certainly not infinite, and it does not have a boundary. To move back to "reality," we could consider the three dimensional surface of a four dimensional sphere (which we could not imagine as easily!)
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But, it is not infinite, but has an age of 14 - 15 billion years old.
Ok, so no, the universe is not temporally infinite, but when most cosmologists talk about the "universe being infinite" they mean to say "spatially infinite," which is something that could be true (we don't really know yet!)
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For the sake of argument, let's define The Void as "the region empty of everything including matter, energy, space and time, and importantly, no quantum mechanical zero-point "jittery" vacuum energy of particle/anti-particle oduction/annihilation.
Whilst I know that some people here like talking about a "void," cosmologists do not mention such a thing (at least not in this context). Your definition of the void appears to be "non existence"-- since you admit that spacetime does not exist in the void, then there can't even be nothing there, but there is no "there." (Sorry, that sounds really philosophical, but I can't think of a way to explain it more succintly).

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On a similar note, prior to the big bang, was there only "The Void"
What does "prior to the big bang" mean? How do you measure time "before the big bang" (if such a statement is even well defined!)
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(I won't confuse things here, although I'm tempted to put in one of Hawking's arguments that the big bang arose from quantum tunneling, but that would negate my proposed definition of The Void, as the Void is completely empty, including of something to start quantum tunneling. Hawking's theory may be fruit for another thread topic....)
Indeed; could you also provide some links, since I've not heard much about that?
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Well, I hope to convince neutralino, or anyone else, that the universe has "an outer edge or boundary".

About 15 years ago I asked Dr. Robert Kirschner - of Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics - this question when I was at one of his Smithsonian Institution lectures, but forgot his answer, thus I am asking it again!! Maybe I'll shoot him an email and ask him also.
I would like to think that Prof. Kirshner would agree with me! (It looks like he's been promoted since you heard him talk! )


~neutralino

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