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Originally Posted by zeroca We have to analyze it only indirect way.
For example, if we own 5 apples and they are taken away off us (all of them), we will get into so called non-apple-having condition, and this condition can be described as nothing regarding to apples, but it doesn’t mean that apples don’t exist generally. But the question - was this universe born from nothing or did it exist always? - Demands answering. If this universe was born from nothing, which itself remains nothing so far (in spite of fact that we can’t see it anywhere), then every creature in this universe and the universe itself must contain the code of it and there must be a system or mechanism based on it with help of which we can prove it experimentally. |
I agree somewhat, but I must state that there will always be a problem contained within your solution in that (and it seems like you have a similar idea about nothing as I do) nothing is part and parcel of the code of our universe. So, even when you can name everything else, you still have to give a spot to nothing as well. As for your five apples, as soon as someone mentions 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, but not zero, then they have forgotten a number. For this I have evidence, whether we'll call it grandiose or most-obvious, in Chapter 5 in "In Search of a Cyclops" (see my page). With nothing part of the final set of players there will always be a definition 'problem' what to do with the player that is nothing.
In my view, the unmaterialized state before our universe came into being is a 'something.' What exactly this was can be discussed, can be theorized, can even help give explanations, but can never be listed on the same level as materialized information.