[Guille]

Originally Posted by Mike 5 Lot of details here. Thanks for the stimulating debate, Guille. 400 years ago tonight Guido Fawkes was found with 36 barrels of gunpowder under the British Parliament. 400 years ago in Spain, how many "muslims" who some say were merely southern Iberians, as Spanish as many others, were driven out of Spain - quarter of a million was it? Dark times indeed, much turmoil.

True. I have historical memory of what the spanish did to the jews, islams, native americans, africans, protestans....and worst of all, what they did to NATURE.

But my paragaph was refering to that we shoudln't care to be looked as freaks, for all of those in whose shoulders we step--as nexton said--had much harder times.

Originally Posted by Mike 5 HOW DO YOU QUOTE SEVERAL ITEMS LIKE THAT? I'll carry on here.

What part of my previosu post is th is refering to (I think I got lost)?

Originally Posted by Mike 5 Rotation obviously cannot be represented by Cartesian Co-ordinate Geometry, if it is only obvious to me, then I certainly have no time to explain it. With a friend in the maths department at Cambridge University (I was in social science), I was one of the first in Britain to solve the Rubiks Cube, rotation versus Cartesian is all in the Rubik's cube. Dismantle a Rubik Cube then imagine the inverse - a rotational universe that is Cartesian inside when you dismantle it... is that possible? If we could answer that, we would be half way to a new TOE.

True, the cube of Rubik does centre on rotation. But in contrast to your theory, rubik's cube does aloud objects to be still, yours are continuoslly in motion.

Originally Posted by Mike 5 Penrose is one of the great minds of the last century, I personally find Hawking a moron in comparison, but Hawking has the publicity and the gift to explain, Penrose is obfuscation to the power genius, but once explained, his thinking is always so tangible, always grounded in material form.

The hardest thing about ideas, is having to express them.

Originally Posted by Mike 5 Twistor Theory? Never heard of it, is it translated into English as I'm not so fluent in Penrosian.

Definatelly ther emsut be books about it written by mathematicians and physicians who do know how to express ideas correctly. But nothing in life is perfect, there is a problem here: probably those who write the books expressing the ideas correctly don't understand as well twistor theory as it's creator.

Originally Posted by Mike 5 "Fashionable" "Reasonable" "Rational" "Logical" - how is your digestion? Go easy on the stodgy words, I always get an adult to cut those up for me. Truth is truth, period. Traditionally in our species scientific progress is only tolerated if it wins wars or makes money.

I agree. But this is not in our species, it is in our society. If we change the society, we will change the future of science and of humanity.