[harmonygirl]

Okay, I have just begun learning about alchemy and it seems to be a marriage of science, art, philosophy and spirituality. It seems to be transformative in nature (but not only making stuff into gold, in other, more profound ways as well). My (probably very naive) question is: do all 4 of the elements (earth, water, fire, air) have to be present in every transformation? Also, where does harmonics fit in?

[mkirkpatrick]

Thank you Harmony,for pointing me in the direction of this new addition!I was
unaware that we had been granted a Space,(Bless dear Robert)must buy him
a beer and large shot,the next time we meet up in the many worlds pub.
Wholistic pursuit,great title,what does it mean though?To me I suppose it
means to re-cognise and understand,and accept,that I am whole,complete,
wanting for no-thing!Then when that is understood,adapting,and adopting,a
method of living in harmony with the principles of life.The simplist most basic
principle,(andalso the most difficult to achieve)is that of harmlessness,in
thought,word.and deed.You asked whether the four elements were present
in every transforming process,the answer to that is yes they are,although
there may well be a greater aspect of any one of these,depending on what
was being transformed!Where do harmonics fit into this?Without an inner
unity,the tune would be discordant,and the transforming process would
fail.
kind regards michael

[Guille]

As people remember Nietzsche for his famous phrase "god is dead." they might remember me by this phrase: Alchemy is dead. Mkirkpatrik, if you want to become the count Dracula of culture, by creating a 'frankenstein' monster out of science, art, philosophy and myth/religion/spirituality, ok, but be realistic. If we use a cartesian coordinate system to describe culture, each of the four terms are going further and further away, even though they have the same origin, and there is no possible alteration of their direction, ont he x: art is going left and science right; on the y: philosophy is going up, myth/religion/spirituality is going down. There is only one point (0,0) in which they meet, in which something can have them all, but as it is the centre zero point, then nothing can really 'be' it or in it.

[harmonygirl]

Michael, I had a bit of a revelation this morning. I was talking a friend of mine who practices traditional chinese medicine and she is coming to Vancouver for a conference on the art of healing through tonality. I wonder if harmonics fits into to alchemy by creating the 'rules' for transforming the elements, ie those elements with lower-scale harmonics with other lower-scale harmonics (this is just an example, I am still finding there is SO much to learn).
I meant by wholism that the separation of art, science, spirituality and philosophy is artificial and that they absolutely need to be regarded as parts of a whole. I think this type of thinking will lead to the TOE but I have only my instinct to go on. (of course, as I have said previously my preliminary TOE IS harmonic).
Guille, even if alchemy is dead (which I don't agree with, but surprise, surprise!), why shouldn't it be resurrected? Why not look at things wholistically?

[Guille]

Originally Posted by harmonygirl Guille, even if alchemy is dead (which I don't agree with, but surprise, surprise!), why shouldn't it be resurrected? Why not look at things wholistically?

So you are the kind of person that believes in all these illuminati and other 'Da Vinci Code' stuff... You believe there is still some kind of secret society that still does alchemy... Anyway it shouldn't be ressurected because (as I state in the post you quote, which I would be pleased if you read a post of mine for once) each of the four is going their own way, further and further away from the others. This is not theory, you just have to look at the present day science and art: the science of today has no place for theorizing, all the theories are mathematical, so it's all blocked, and in present art there is no palce to try to be tecnical or to read a message, you have to look and either love it or hate it. Present day philosophy is very background, there is no space for them to discuss concepts, too much has been done, so they are actually theoretic sociologers and naturers, whiles theism of any kind is no opened to all possible conceptualization, a good example is how you defend the idea of spirituality over religion, that is all conceptual differentiation. It's good to look at things wholistically, but not reductionist, don't confuse the terms. Wholistic thought is, for example, the idea I gave that art, science, philosophy and theism are like a coordinate system, it is looking at relationships and connectiosn, differences and descriptions...etz. But reductionist, is saying they all work the same, and are the same, and making them =. For painters, there are 7 basic colours, for physicists there are 3, for musicians there are 2 notes can make up 3, but for mathematicians 2 can never equal 3.... And there are many other examples. I am interested in wholistic thinking, but not in reductionist thinking.

[harmonygirl]

Guille, Guille, Guille. Alchemy doesn't necessarily involve the so-called 'illuminaty' or other (fanciful) secret societies. Even if these things exist (and I really don't care one way or the other if they do), they do not define alchemy. I am not a fan of the DaVinci Code, Umberto Eco wrote a much better book on these times. I don't agree with the 'chart' you have created, I think it is a very poor tool to understand the interrelationships between science, art,philosophy, spirituality and math. You have proved my point, the science of today NEEDS to be more open (in my view,it is reductionist, to use your vernacular) to other ways of reaching the truth, because that's what it's all about, no? It appears that we will once again have to disagree, because the way you apprehend your environment is artificial to me.

[mkirkpatrick]

Guille,my amigo.Whats this about my uncle Count Dracula! That upsets you?
actually I think the story came about from,Vlad the Impaler,a rather unsavory
chappie,from I believe,Austria.Or was it Translavania!The pursuit of whole-
ness my friend,has nothing to do with the past,but everything to do with the
present,do you not agree?The pursuit of wholeness is quintessentially the
most important thing a human being can attend to.How they achieve this
may vary greatly,some may practise forms of Yoga,meditation,others may
seek out those who are in need,and help and support them.Some may look
at ways of protecting wildlife,and devote their lives to this,a common thread
through this,would be a sense of connectivity to all life,an identification with
the world around us,and a feeling of personal responsibility,which when felt
a depth within ones inner core,or soul,invokes a response.

kind regards michael.

[mkirkpatrick]

We grow through the medium of our own recognitions,toward a unity in
diversity.Each molehill of experience,a mountain of triumph.A duality in the
process of becoming a unity.The practise of meditation governs all expansions of consciousness and that of evolutionary unfoldment.The practise of meditation,done over a period of many,many,years,brings about a
fusion of soul and personality.Mind,body,and soul,become synchronized,then
the man or woman,has coherency of actions,simultaneity of purpose,and is
synthetic endeavour.The inner fires circulate in perfect symmetry and the
man as himself is no more?


kind regards michael.

[harmonygirl]

Michael,
We are sympatico on this. I think that alchemy represents this union of mind, body and soul, but more on that later...

[harmonygirl]

In my readings on alchemy, I have come across mention of an ever-burning light. Does anyone know anything about this?