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Re: Early Man
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Re: Early Man - 05-02-2008, 12:43 AM

3.. Third Concept you need for a modern brain: IMAGINATION

What does this mean.

Lets use an easy explanation. Firstly we can cross connect apparently unrelated events or objects, we can group these events or objects into notions.

Imagination is nothing more, nor less, than the ability to create notions that DO NOT EXIST in reality. Picturing footprints that you have not seen. Going on a successful Hunt, only in your mind .... and then .... communicating it to others .. and carrying it out. Looking at a massive gorge in a Mountain range and deducing that it looks similar to a Snake Trail... ergo ... A Dreamtime serpent made this gorge when he crawled thru here. Explaining events that have no explanation using your existing notions. Becoming Spiritual, religious ... this is Imagination.

For this you need a very BIG Brain with HEAPS and HEAPS of memory space.

Homo Ergaster did not have imagination. He did not develop jewellery, art work, religion, sophisticated burials ... His tools were masterpieces, but he did not know that ... for him they were purely functional.

You could not tell Ergaster a joke ... imaginary notions were not part of his brain process.

But the two descendants of Ergaster could do this. Neanderthal in a limited way. Homo Sapiens in a limitless way.

When Homo Ergaster disappeared from Africa we find the first fossils of Homo Sapiens.

When Homo Ergaster disappeared from the rest of the occupied world we find the first fossil of Neanderthal.

An Ice age descended on Europe and the Northern Hemisphere. Neanderthal adapted to make a living (just) in this environment. The physical requirements for Neanderthal were so hard that his imagination was put on the backburner.

But Homo Sapiens was in even Bigger trouble. The water that was being locked up in the glaciers of the northern hemisphere meant that no water was available in Africa. Africa started to dry out.

Something had to be done. What did Homo Sapiens do. He died, and he died, and he continued to die.

It can be shown that as any species draws towards extinction, the fitness of the remaining population increases. This is inversely proportional. In other words when things get tough, the toughest get going, they are all that remain.

Homo Sapiens, our Ancestors, approached extinction until there was only around 300 to 1000 of us left. We know this from our DNA Markers.

What did these few, these mighty few do ? They used their imagination.

To start with they had to get out. But how, you cannot travel without water, and there was none in the northern escape route.

They decided to carry it. Sounds simple. Sounds really simple. Listen, they were the first to ever think of it, no one, no creature had ever had a need to devise such an outlandish thing before.

They created water banks, hollowed out ostrich eggs, bark containers, and they fought their way out. They used their imagination to picture a notion that did not exist in reality. ie: water in the desert. Then they followed the coastlines to everywhere ...

Some of them never stopped until they reached Australia 60,000 years ago. The record of their journey is contained in their 'Dreamtime'. the dreamtime is not a religion, it is the oral history passed down thru the countless generations so that the descendants may survive.

The DNA proof of their journey is that they carry a special DNA marker unique to Australian Aboriginals. This DNA Marker has recently been found, by the human genome project, in 2 citizens of Chennai (Formerly Madras, India). These two citizens were born, and have lived all their lives in Madras, as well as all their forebears for as far back as can be traced. This has been taken to show that the Australian Aboriginal passed that way on his incredible journey.

The reason that the Dreamtime is not a religion is that it NEVER makes a prediction for the future, it only tells the story of the journey of man, and the creation of the world. it has no God. It is full of Serpents and creatures of mythical status ... but versions of these creatures exist all around such as snakes and emus and crows and kangaroos.

The Dreamtime lays down Dreaming Paths that are followed to this day by Aboriginals on walkabout. There are very good reasons, scientific reasons, why these paths should be followed and certain actions, such as burning, are to be carried out.

The Dreamtime is not just the Aboriginal story, it is ours, yours and mine too.

When you have the 3 things required for a modern brain
... you can legitimately say that you are SAPIENT (homo sapiens) Today we are starting to realise that their are many other species that show degrees of Sapience. Nearly all of them are mammals, whales, bears, dolphins, etc. The species that are not mammals but have some degree of Sapience are the Octopus and Squid and Cuttlefish.

I know that Michael and others will not agree with this but when you are classed as Sapient you are 'Conscious'. Thats what Consciousness IS !!.

Dear Peoples ... If you have stuck thru these last three threads you have been very patient and perservering. We have come all the way from Lucy, thru Handyman to US. Thanks for your responses, you too Austin. I don't think you would have read anything here you did not already know.

Now would be a good time to re-look at the first post in this thread and the rock art in the light of this explanation and the story of the Dreamtime. They are the pictorial records, the postcards, that our ancestors have left us.

cool bananas ... hope I haven't bored anyone shitless ... greg

PS: As I said in the first post, I am not an expert and you should consult other sources for specific details.


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Re: Early Man
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Re: Early Man - 05-02-2008, 12:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by austintorn@aol.com View Post
Early man lives on, in your heart and mine…

Were you drinking from that gas can at the picnic table or was that lemonade or fuel for cooking or for a motorcycle…

My career is in ruins, so I'm going into archeology…

Welcome back.
Austin ... LOL. Outback it is very very hot. I take 2 x 25 litre fuel containers ... one filled with water, the other with fuel. As well I have 3 little 5 litre fuel containers, 2 for drinking water and 1 with water for washing hands etc, before cooking (germs breed easily in hot weather)

The reason I use fuel containers is that they are unbreakable. Drop one accidently down a 50 metre cliff face and it will bounce and tumble all the way to the bottom, but it will not burst open ... water is precious. Just ask those who had to leave Africa. LOL

cool bananas ... greg


Quote:
Originally Posted by Profpat View Post
P.S. Did you aver play the didgeridoo?
No Pat ... But ... We take Didgeridoo music with us and we play it under the stars late at night. We also drink a lot of icy cool white wine and smoke a number (or two). To each their own ... life is short. Some people may not approve. We talk for hours about our different finds of the day and the person/s who may have fashioned it.

In the next post I will show some of thes finds.

cool bananas ... greg


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Re: Early Man - 05-02-2008, 09:37 AM

Hi Greg;

Your thread is very interesting. It seems like our brain began to develop out of adversity and necessities. The beginning of this is not that. Distinction if you will. Now I wonder when that concept of the knowledge of good and evil evolved?

Best,

Pat

  
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Re: Early Man - 05-03-2008, 02:06 PM

That was very very interesting Greg. Not boring at all. Thanks a lot...
So, evolution is basically a technik of survival. Or a need to fulfill a necessity.
So, may be I can tell that the basics of maths and science are also to fulfill a man's need. Maths as a measure of man's need and science as a tool to fulfill this need. I think even to this day this is true. However now it has a become a quest also for knowledge.


"I never anticipate, - carpe diem - the past at least is one's own, which is one reason for making sure of the present."

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Re: Early Man - 05-03-2008, 02:11 PM

Pat,
I think Good and evil arise as two different concepts only when there is differentiation in a species. A Homo sapien could destroy the homo erectus guy. Because he wanted dominance over him because he was better. Homo erectus lost the battle he dissapeared. Homo sapien survived. For homo erectus homo sapien is a evil power hungry moron. Homo sapien is evil for homo erectus because he thinks he is better than the other guy and has to dominate because he is better.
So, good or evil is just another by product of uniqueness of each man.


"I never anticipate, - carpe diem - the past at least is one's own, which is one reason for making sure of the present."

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Re: Early Man - 05-03-2008, 06:28 PM

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Pat,
I think Good and evil arise as two different concepts only when there is differentiation in a species. A Homo sapien could destroy the homo erectus guy. Because he wanted dominance over him because he was better. Homo erectus lost the battle he dissapeared. Homo sapien survived. For homo erectus homo sapien is a evil power hungry moron. Homo sapien is evil for homo erectus because he thinks he is better than the other guy and has to dominate because he is better.
So, good or evil is just another by product of uniqueness of each man.
I think that Homo Sapiens, by leaving Africa to avoid death modified his environment. He modified the waterless escape route north by carrying water. Ever since then when our environment turns against us (through our own actions or another) we modify it to make it habitable.

Homo Erectus could not modify the environment ... He suffered. I don't know that Home Sapiens or Neanderthal nor their Parent, Homo Heidlebergensis were enemies ... just that Sapiens was much better at accessing food sources that were 'invisible' to the others. Slowly they bred less as there was less of them and Sapiens bred more as he was more successful.

No doubt there were conflicts (local) over food sources but I don't think there was any purposeful extermination ... there is no evidence for that so far.

Homo Sapiens has continued to purposefully modify his environment .... Cities are totally artificial environments. Other species also modify environments .. Dinosaurs created plainlands and Elephants continue to keep them clear by knocking down Acacia trees.

Thanks for your comments Mohan.

cool bananas ... greg


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Re: Early Man - 05-04-2008, 11:37 AM

Thanks Greg,
I'm sorry if I misdirected your thread. I was thinking of extinction of earlier human species as more of an cultural or a specieal conflict. I was wrong.
I was thinking of this like the rabbit and lion story, for a rabbit a lion is evil because it eats it and it dominates the rabbit(atleast in the story it is so). But the lion cannot be called evil because it has to eat if it has to survive. But yeah it is evil if it eats more than it needs. But as you said rabbits don't have the ability to think that lion is evil or not because it cannot cross connect with different events. So this is different.
Thanks again..


"I never anticipate, - carpe diem - the past at least is one's own, which is one reason for making sure of the present."

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Re: Early Man - 05-04-2008, 06:34 PM

Right on. I suppose in the end the fittest survive ... From the point of view of the rest this could be classed as evil.

The redeeming fact is that even 'the fittest' cannot survive in isolation.

We are all in it together . LOL

cool bananas ... greg


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Re: Early Man - 05-04-2008, 06:58 PM

Hi Greg;

An interesting discussion regarding the three elements for a modern human brain:

When you have the 3 things required for a modern brain ... you can legitimately say that you are SAPIENT (homo sapiens) Today we are starting to realise that their are many other species that show degrees of Sapience. Nearly all of them are mammals, whales, bears, dolphins, etc. The species that are not mammals but have some degree of Sapience are the Octopus and Squid and Cuttlefish.

As I recall the human brain also has three major evolutionary steps. The reptilian brain ( survival ), the mammalian brain ( nurturing ), and the human brain ( your excellent description ).

Best,

Pat
  
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Re: Early Man - 05-05-2008, 12:33 AM

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As I recall the human brain also has three major evolutionary steps. The reptilian brain ( survival ), the mammalian brain ( nurturing ), and the human brain ( your excellent description ).

Best,

Pat
Yes physically speaking that is correct I think. The fish brain is the most primitive ... as I understand it, it was the first, then amphibian (this might be wrong) then reptilian, then mammal.

Sometimes you have to wonder. If the reptilian is so primitive, and huge salt water crocodiles have a brain the size of a pea, then how is it that many reptiles make pets ?

I have known people who have had Carpet Snakes (python) and goannas (iguana) for pets. These pets do seem to recognize and bond with their owners ... I think we still have a very long way to go before we know how any brain works to our total satisfaction.

cool bananas ... greg


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