[Graybeard]

Hello Peoples ... been away for a while.

I have found the Toequest forum has slowly but surely drifted away from the 'Science aspects' that interest me. This is not a criticism, but leaves me little to post on. Science has always been an interest of mine, but if truth were told it is a secondary interest. My main interest has always been in evolution and the descent of Man.

In pursuit of this interest my friend Roscoe and I have recently been on a trip (or holiday) to a remote part of Australia.

Mainly we were in search of rock art and stone lithics.

I am hoping that Robert or Neutralino will read this and create an early-man or hominid or archeology forum, but in the mean time this is the only toequest forum I can find where I can post on this interest. After all Hominds played a part in the theory of everything too. LOL

My first post is mainly pictures of our trip. Hope you enjoy and that I get enough feedback to convince Neutralino that it may be a valid topic.

We travelled 1520 kilometres west of our homes to Broken Hill, then a further 130 klm north east to a very very remote area called Mutawintji. This is tribal land and is governed under Native Title.



A Map of our journey



Mutawintji itself








Rock Art in Mutawintji is classed as some of the oldest art in the world. The small line with the divided ends is a flail for warding of evil spirits. The rectangle with the bars drawn thru it is common in a lot of rock art here but its meaning is obscure



Hand prints are not really classed as Rock Art but are rather signatures. The more of the forearm shown the higher the ranking of the individual. White with forearm show extremely high rank.





Stone engravings in this area are known as Paramanitee style or 'Track and Circle'. They have never really been decoded and are abstract in design. I personally believe they are schematic maps of territory rather than normal (diagrammatic) maps.

Had to crawl into a deep crevice and expose the film for 3-4 seconds to get this one.







One the way back we camped at Mt Grenfell, another rock art site but different (later) in style. I call this type the happy or animated people style. The first one below must have been done by a child as I had to slide into a very narrow cave with the camera on my face and the lens scraping the roof of the cave.













And finally a couple of pics of the Mt Grenfell area





Hope you enjoyed. Please give me some feedback

cool bananas ... greg

[Profpat]

Hi Greg;

I heard where those hand prints are ~ 40,000 years old. Any encounters with the brown snakes. It's my understanding they are playing havoc with your eco-system. A currnt form of survival of the fittest. I guess it's pretty fit for it's environment.

We have had a couple of scienctific chats in the forums chat room. Maybe the next one you'll be able to attend.

Thanks for sharing your pictures, and agree there should be one dedicated to man and his evolution.

Best to you,

Pat

P.S. I would love to see more pictures and more stories of your adventures.

[Graybeard]

Thanks for your kind remarks professor. I hope you don't regret your request for more ... LOL

Australia, as is starting to become apparent, may hold the earliest recorded history of homo Sapiens. 40,000 BP is now a given. 60,000 BP is looking like a good possibility, but while there is plenty of evidence for 60K so far no stratigraphic evidence has been found. Stratigraphic evidence is found in documenting the layers of cave floors. Unfortunately the Aboriginals did not live in caves but only used them as temporary shelters in times of need so that it is very difficult to find lithics in the 60K layers.

Plenty of stone tools and such that are considered to be 60K have been found as surface finds but until they can be stratigrapically located it is not firm evidence. It appears that Homo Sapiens was living in Australia at the same time as Neanderthal occupied Europe.

From 'The Prehistory of Australia' by Mulvaney & Kamminga

..located a second human burial half a kilometre to the east, recently exposed to heavy rainfall. These remains were called Lake Mungo 3. The position of the shallow grave beneath the dune's upper Mungo Unit suggested an age of 28,000 to 30,000 years BP. Within this grave the body had been laid out with hands clasped together and knees slightly flexed, ochre daubed generously on the body had stained the sand of the grave fill a pink colour.

Lake Mungo is a lake that has been dry for 15000+ years. The bed of the lake has been blown to the eastern shore and forms a gigantic sand dune 18klms long and a 100m or so high. Its like walking on the moon ... a weird and eerie but beautiful place. This guy has been laying there in his grave for 25000 years before they started the first pyramid in Egypt.

Here is a description of the Wilgie Mia Ochre Mine which may have been mined for the past 40,000 years, this one in particular supplied most of the ochre used throughout the western half of Australia

the quarry represents the removal of many thousands of tonnes of rock. There is evidence that wooden scaffolds were propped against the rock face to provide access to some of the rock seams. The floor of the main pit is stratified to a depth of six metres, with quarrying tools preserved throughout the deposit. Heavy stones were used like mauls to batter the rock, and fire hardened wooden wedges, about half a metre long, prised out the ochre. Wilgie Mia represented the blood of a dreaming kangaroo creation being. It was extensively traded throughout Western Australia and possibly even as far as Queensland (3000 klm away) Although Wilgie Mia may have been mined for thousands of years, it is not exhausted yet. That such tonnage extraction of Ochre was not exceptional is indicated by other evidence. Scientific Excavations in 1958 at Yarar rockshelter in the Northern Territory recovered 20,000 pieces of ochre, weighing 183 kilograms (about 400 US pounds) from 25 cubic metres of deposit. Dierie people from Cooper Creek are known to have travelled 500 kilometres annually to collect ochre from the Bookartoo (Parachilna) quarry in the northern Flinders Ranges. In these annual expeditions more than 70 men each returned with 30 kilograms (about 65 pound) loads of ochre

Here are 2 really old hand prints almost totally covered by thousands of years patination. They just may be the two oldest handprints on the Planet Earth !!









Below is a very small picture of me in the rockshelter where the two prints are. LOL



cool bananas ... and enjoy .. greg

[Profpat]

It's very interesting Greg.

Does anybody know where the Aborigines came from? Did they have their own evolutionary branch?

Also is there anything from their dreamtime philosophy/religion that would be inspirational for a TOE? As you are aware I like incorporating ancient thoughts into my An Idea. If I'm not mistaken it's something like Michael's consciousness theory.

Best to you,

Pat

P.S. Did you aver play the didgeridoo?

[mkirkpatrick]

Greg me old mate,so good to hear from you,great thread and concept,keep with us mate,this forum is what YOU make it,so get busy posting and stop wingeing you aussie B.





regards michael.

[Mohan.C]

Thanks a lot greg.
Its really amazing to know from where to where humans have traveled in the timeline.
I like the history of evolution. More than that I like the evolution of man's mind. How could he have come to think of certain concepts, ideas........
Thanks again.

[RascalPuff]

Very good to see you back, Greg.
Your wealth of contributions are ineffable.
Hope to see you write and display more about your world class ventures.

[austintorn@aol.com]

Early man lives on, in your heart and mine…

Were you drinking from that gas can at the picnic table or was that lemonade or fuel for cooking or for a motorcycle…

My career is in ruins, so I'm going into archeology…

Welcome back.

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by Profpat Does anybody know where the Aborigines came from? Did they have their own evolutionary branch? Also is there anything from their dreamtime philosophy/religion that would be inspirational for a TOE? As you are aware I like incorporating ancient thoughts into my An Idea. If I'm not mistaken it's something like Michael's consciousness theory. Best to you, Pat P.S. Did you aver play the didgeridoo?

Originally Posted by Mohan.C Thanks a lot greg. Its really amazing to know from where to where humans have traveled in the timeline. I like the history of evolution. More than that I like the evolution of man's mind. How could he have come to think of certain concepts, ideas........ Thanks again.

I am not an expert, just an amateur. But here goes for a quick rundown on the 'journey of man'

Around 10 million years ago (mya) The tectonic plate that Africa floats on split in two. This is known today as the 'Great Rift Valley. The split was vast and deep, stretching from todays Syria in the North down to todays Mozambique in the South. All of Africa's Lakes are now located on this rift, some nearly 2 klm deep. The rift is around 6000 kilometres long.

Prior to the rift the whole area was covered in rainforest and along with thousands of other species was occupied by a species of Lemur like primates. The primates ended up on both sides of the rift.

The side we are concerned with suffered a severe climate change resulting in a shift towards more arid conditions. Trees became sparser and further apart. These primates already had developed a partially upright posture for walking along tree branches. This 'selection' now enabled them to walk upright between clumps of forest that were becoming separated by open grassy plain. They are known as Australopithicus Afarensis ... but you have probably heard of them by the most complete specimen found 'Lucy' Here

Now for an important point. Our modern Brain today operates with 3 very simple concepts (simple is probably the wrong word LOL) I will try to explain each one as I go along ... I hope. LOL.

1.. First concept you need for a modern brain: The ability to cross connect ideas.

What does this mean. Here is a simple test. If I ask you:

'What is the difference between a stone and a branch ?'
You could correctly reply:
'They are 2 entirely different compounds'

'What is the difference between a bone and water ?'
'Why you idiot they are 2 entirely different compounds'

What is the difference between water and sand ?
'You numbskull ... they are 2 different compounds

'OK .. what is the difference between Water and Ice ?'

Did you pause ? ... thats because you made a cross connection in your brain. Lucy could not do this ... she would have replied that water and ice are 2 entirely different compounds. Her brain was smaller, (specifically her memory banks) not much bigger than a chimps. This was not her fault, the neurons required to cross connect the paths in her memory had not yet evolved. She was doing the best she could ... She was our ancestor ! She felt pain, loss, grief, happiness, and she loved ... but she did not know why !!

She would never leave Africa, she had no need to. 2.5 million years ago (mya) she and her kind disappeared from the fossil record.

Now, in the fossil record four new contenders for a modern brain appear.

Homo Rudolfensis.
Australopithicus Gahri
Australopithicus Africanus
Homo Habilus (Handyman)

Lets leave out the first 3 and just talk about Handyman. He was just a little guy, only coming up to our waist ... bullied and pushed out of the good territories. The only way he could get food was to scavenge and keep out of everyone else's way.

He made an incredible discovery ... He did this because he was incredibly curious, starvation makes you investigate every possible source. (his memory banks were larger than Lucys) By waiting his turn, until all the other predators had left the kill site, he collected the bones. Using rocks he smashed open the bones in a safe location and feasted on the marrow. He was the only, and the first, creature that worked this out.

Marrow and Brain are made from the same matter.

He had found a continuous source of food, easily collected. His brain, owing to this rich diet of pure brain matter grew in size and the cross connections grew with it. The single leg bone of a Giraffe can contain 10kgs of marrow !

He was the first of our ancestors to make cross connections. He had made a connection between Stone and Bone to release food. They were 2 different compounds but in some way that he did not really understand, they were connected. Even tho he was only a little, small timid curious fellow, he now stood tall amongst all others. He could organise, and he did. Working like a trained commando unit, they would throw rocks at Lions and Hyenas that had made a fresh kill. The lions were bigger and stronger, but they were frightened by the swarm of Handyman and missiles approaching.

He would never set foot outside of Africa, he had no need to. He disappears from the fossil record about 1.8 mya. He was my favourite !!

My next post will explain the second concept required to have a modern brain.

Hope I am not boring you guys.

cool bananas ... greg

[Graybeard]

2.. Second Concept you need for a modern brain: The ability to entertain a notion

What does this mean. Here is a simple example.

What do you think when you see a footprint in, for example, dried mud ?

'Why, some creature of type such-and-such passed this way, everyone knows that !'

But not everyone knows that at all. No other creature that walks the earth, swims in the sea, flies in the air, knows that. Only YOU know that!!

A Lion can certainly follow tracks ... but he does it by smell, molecules of the original creature that made the tracks remain in the footprint. The Lion in fact smells the creature. But once the smell has gone, the footprints mean no more to the Lion than any other feature in his landscape.

No other creature on the Earth can discern a footprint. Only YOU.

Why ? Because you can entertain a notion. A Notion is no more than the ability to make a whole series of cross connections and picture a single sequential event.

'A big phuk*ng Bear passed here going thatta way. me very scared!!'

A footprint cannot elicit fear, elation or any other emotion in any other creature except US. We can entertain a notion.

When Handyman disappeared from the fossil record around 1.8 mya a new Species appeared. Homo Ergaster, possibly Homo Erectus. Presently there are many unresolved questions surrounding these 2 and it may be they were a single species.

For our purposes lets use Homo Ergaster.

Homo Ergaster, like Handyman, could make cross connections, he also had a much bigger brain than Handyman. As well he was the first of our ancestors that was relatively hairless and he had sweat glands in place of hair follicles (another DNA spelling mistake that turned to his advantage) He could sweat. This was an enormous advantage, it meant he could pass thru inhospitable terrain to reach another place and remain cool on the way. As well he was the first to have a DNA mutation that gave whites to his eyes. This defect he learnt to use as a communication device, a look here, a glance there, and his hunting buddies knew how to react.

The climate was right. Some Homo Ergaster remained in Africa, others left and travelled across the Northern continents as far as China, settling territory as they went. They were very successful.

Homo Ergaster had the ability to make cross connections. Homo Ergaster had the ability to group these cross connections into Notions. This gave him the ability to venture way beyond his environment. Millions of species can venture beyond their birthplaces, insects, fish, ants, all sorts. But big complex creatures require huge support systems to do this. Dinosaurs did it and so did Ergaster.

He crafted Handymans stone bone breaking rocks into jewelled masterpieces. And he carried them with him as support systems.





Homo Ergaster disappeared from the fossil record around 1 mya. Some radical proposals are that they are still around in our DNA .. but this is not mainstream thinking.


My next post will explain the third concept required to have a modern brain.

Hope I am not boring you guys.

cool bananas ... greg