[Graybeard]

~~ My definition of our Cosmic Horizon ~~

As Universal expansion continues the separation between objects grows at an exponential rate.

If you line up two people to the left of where you are standing, each one of you separated by 1 metre and then issue a command that each person must separate by 2 metres then the person immediately to your left must move 1 metre further away. He is now 2 metres from you, but the person to the left of him must now step 2 metres away to maintain separation. This person is now 4 metres from you. He has gone from 2 metres to 4 metres in a 1 metre increase between all objects in the line !!

The further an object is down the line the greater the distance it must travel with each 1 metre step of separation.

If an object is far enough away a point will be reached where its separation rate is greater than the distance light can travel, in the time allowed, to bridge the gap. This point is called the Cosmic Horizon.

The Laws of Physics forbid light, or anything that began its journey at less than the speed of light from ever passing across this gap. This is the part of our Universe that is unknowable. No word or information package has ever reached us from across this abyss. Nor could it have, nor ever will.

Our Cosmic Horizon has been likened in comparison to the Universe as less than a grain of sand compared to all the oceans and beaches of the world. (altho I don't have a reference). So it turns out that the vast majority of our Universe is totally unknowable, in fact nearly ALL of it.

NO information can ever cross, none

And yet, we know quite a lot about it. How have we cheated the Laws of Physics in this way?

• We know what it consists of, the same elements as we do.
• We know the stage of its cosmic evolution.
• We know the objects that populate its Spacetime.
• We know its shape.
• We know its age.

But we don't know, nor ever will know the finer details. We will never witness the cataclysmic supernovas, but we know they occur. Its massive, everchanging nebulae clouds, its clusters and super clusters will never be seen, but we can draw a fairly accurate map.

No telescope can ever peer into it. We have not one empirical item of proof of its existence !!

So how is it that our consciousness knows so much about the unknowable? No other species can ever approach this. How is it that we accept this achievement with equanmity?

Sometimes when I think about this deeply I am amazed by our incredible analytical achievements, but at other moments am assailed by grave doubts that all our mathamatics, the cornerstone of our logical reasoning, is nothing more than a toy we have invented to titillate the extreme tips of our liking for complex puzzles. A candy for our senses.

My question is this: Has Natural Selection in a moment of triumph created in mankind a new Superspecies, one able to comprehend even the unknowable, or has Natural Selection, in its moment of triumph overstepped the evolutionary line ?

cool bananas ... greg

[neutralino]

Thanks for the suggestion, Greg. Since you'd written a complete post, I decided just to move this here as the thread starter.

[dipayankar]

Hi Graybeard... this is the first time I have come to this thread. Its an interesting topic. The thoughts are also sensible. This brings me to some questions. Do you believe in Parallel Universe? Do you think that the expanse of our Universe is infinite, if yes, then it would have by some means exceed the speed of light, even if you consider the example of distance that you quoted. Is the expansion of the Universe an exception in the Theory of Relativity that staes that the defining limit of speed is light??

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by dipayankar Hi Graybeard... this is the first time I have come to this thread. Its an interesting topic. The thoughts are also sensible. This brings me to some questions. Do you believe in Parallel Universe?

Well Parallel Universes, Multiverses, Anthromorphic principles are all postulates that we possibly can never know. But with the Cosmic Horizon, even tho it is unknowable it does exist because the maths tell us it must be there ... Thats why I find it so weird.

Originally Posted by dipayankar Do you think that the expanse of our Universe is infinite, if yes, then it would have by some means exceed the speed of light, even if you consider the example of distance that you quoted. Is the expansion of the Universe an exception in the Theory of Relativity that staes that the defining limit of speed is light??

Space is expanding faster than the speed of light. The limit that applies to light and everything that started out slower than the speed of light is not placed on the expansion of space. When space expands between any two objects no 'G' force or acceleration is felt ... such as would be if either of, or both of the two objects were accelerating away or towards each other. Our acceleration is limited to less than the speed of light.

The expansion of space is not an acceleration, even tho objects are receding from each other, and therefore General Relativity places no limit on it at all.

cool bananas ... greg

[mkirkpatrick]

Interesting thread idea Greg,the reason we know that we know,and can understand deep
realities,is because we are the very embodiment of reality (truth) as I explained in my
thread of that title.

We are the universe mate,the horizon is where consciousness meets the noumena at
the portal of "appearance" where the temporal "arises" and time is "born".

Just look within yourself,no need to search the internet,read lots of books,listen to long
winded ego centered explanations of how this "learned fellow" details his "offerings"!

Instead just look within yourself,there you will find the answer to the cosmic horizon,as
it is vouchsafed within you,and you are the very embodiment of "all that IS?



regards michael.

[everymansmedium]

Hello Greg:
How can you say that our speed in this concept of expanding space is less than the speed of light? Relative to what center of expansion? If there is no center than maybe everything is traveling greater than the speed of light. We must be traveling at greater than the speed of light relative to that which is beyond the horizon if in fact it is there at all. These are the very questions that made me feel that the idea of the expanding space is an attempt to explain a phenomena that will in time be better explained by other methods.
John

[dipayankar]

The maths of String Theory (I really wonder if this can be proved) does point to the possibility of Parallel Universes. Personally I dont like this theory. I feel there is just one Universe that is extremely vast and most of it is unknown to us..

Originally Posted by Graybeard Well Parallel Universes, Multiverses, Anthromorphic principles are all postulates that we possibly can never know. But with the Cosmic Horizon, even tho it is unknowable it does exist because the maths tell us it must be there ... Thats why I find it so weird. Space is expanding faster than the speed of light. The limit that applies to light and everything that started out slower than the speed of light is not placed on the expansion of space. When space expands between any two objects no 'G' force or acceleration is felt ... such as would be if either of, or both of the two objects were accelerating away or towards each other. Our acceleration is limited to less than the speed of light. The expansion of space is not an acceleration, even tho objects are receding from each other, and therefore General Relativity places no limit on it at all. cool bananas ... greg

[neutralino]

Originally Posted by Graybeard Space is expanding faster than the speed of light. The limit that applies to light and everything that started out slower than the speed of light is not placed on the expansion of space. When space expands between any two objects no 'G' force or acceleration is felt ... such as would be if either of, or both of the two objects were accelerating away or towards each other. Our acceleration is limited to less than the speed of light. The expansion of space is not an acceleration, even tho objects are receding from each other, and therefore General Relativity places no limit on it at all. cool bananas ... greg

One cannot compare an acceleration to a velocity; they are inherently different quantities. I know what you're saying though, Greg. Distances increase because the universe is expanding, and it looks like distant objects are moving with respect to us at speeds far exceeding the speed of light. However, it is not a physical velocity, and so relativity is not broken.

[neutralino]

Originally Posted by dipayankar The maths of String Theory (I really wonder if this can be proved) does point to the possibility of Parallel Universes.

Well, first you need to define "parallel universe" in this sense. How does the "maths of string theory" point to this possibility? What maths are you talking of? Perhaps you mean the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics?

Personally I dont like this theory. I feel there is just one Universe that is extremely vast and most of it is unknown to us..

Well yes, these are good points.

[everymansmedium]

Hello friends:
I believe that I have been reading information from a few sites that might shed a bit of light on your questions. The information shows a bit of both families of thought. However as in all concepts we work with here your own decision as to what is viable is necessary.

http://www.matter-antimatter.com/kal...ein_theory.htm

http://library.thinkquest.org/27930/stringtheory5.htm

http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/qg_ss.html

John