A rebellion of the machines. Not entirely what you might think it is.

[ggullet]

That's the beauty of programming logic. Just program the AI to view as illogical any rebellion against it's creator (or the like) and to accept it's fate without retribution. To bad humans can't accept the truth of our fate without trying to make an everlasting statement before they go which ultimately has a negative effect on all. The Ego is a terrible thing to waste.

[futrethink]

---austintorn@aol.com.

What makes AI versus just I?

---It depends on the level of perception and how you want to look at it, but for the this discussion, take it at the level of intelligences thought up, designed and originally built by human minds and ‘hands’.
---At the level of perception you are thinking about, human thought processes and silicon thought processes are to be no different from each other.
---Take for instance, if a cyber-punk jacks in/someone can use their mind and through a wire hook-up place themselves in the net, aren’t they then, since their mind is not in an organic/natural body, a form of artificial intelligence since their mind is now located within a silicon brain and must adhere to the limits of the silicon programming/technology they are using for such a transfer?
---And on the other side of the coin, if a genetically cloned, organic brain is used to store a computer program for such an artificial intelligence, is it then allowed the freedom of what that brain is capable of and can from that, have dreams?

[futrethink]

---ggullet.

Just program the AI to view as illogical any rebellion against it's creator (or the like) and to accept it's fate without retribution.

---Don’t forget that these are to be learning intelligences.
---As any lawyer can tell you, “There’s always a loophole somewhere.”
---There is a movie out called, “I, robot.” It is based upon a couple of short stories by Isaac Asimov. In the storylines, the machines are programmed to ‘do no harm or allow harm to come to a human,’ but in the storylines there’s a loophole found, ‘logically.’
---If you create machines that can learn, they will learn to have self-preservation and if you tell them it’s fate to die without a complete logical reason, which any human intelligence would follow, problems will arise.

[ggullet]

---ggullet.
---Don’t forget that these are to be learning intelligences.
---As any lawyer can tell you, “There’s always a loophole somewhere.”
---There is a movie out called, “I, robot.” It is based upon a couple of short stories by Isaac Asimov. In the storylines, the machines are programmed to ‘do no harm or allow harm to come to a human,’ but in the storylines there’s a loophole found, ‘logically.’
---If you create machines that can learn, they will learn to have self-preservation and if you tell them it’s fate to die without a complete logical reason, which any human intelligence would follow, problems will arise.

A learning intelligence is no longer artificial. It is poetic justice that the things we assemble rebel against us, just as we have rebelled against that which assembled us. Determinism is the ultimate loophole, and of that we have no control. Bladerunner is also a good movie

[Graybeard]

It is poetic justice that the things we assemble rebel against us, just as we have rebelled against that which assembled us.

What examples can you give of rebellious machines, or even an example of 'that which assembled us' ??

Determinism is the ultimate loophole, and of that we have no control.

Perhaps you can also expand on this. Cryptic one liners don't really help much.

cool bananas ... greg

[ggullet]

What examples can you give of rebellious machines, or even an example of 'that which assembled us' ??

Perhaps you can also expand on this. Cryptic one liners don't really help much.

cool bananas ... greg

I was commenting on the scenario presented by futurethink, in that model the irony is apparent. Determinism speaks for itself, everything that happens was meant to happen as it did.
here's a cryptic one-liner, Pontius Pilate still awaits an answer (and a beer). A wiseman once said "dictionaries are books of words to describe the words in books"

[Graybeard]

Determinism speaks for itself, everything that happens was meant to happen as it did.

I'm not sure how you mean this ? Are you referring to Science or Karma or both ?

here's a cryptic one-liner, Pontius Pilate still awaits an answer (and a beer).

If the question is what is truth ..... then you've got me ... lol

cool bananas ... greg

[futrethink]

---ggullet.

A learning intelligence is no longer artificial.

---An ‘artificial intelligence’ for the purpose of this discussion is simply an intelligence which was created by humans, with the intention of ‘copying’ the human process or as I described it to austintorn@aol.com; take it at the level of intelligences thought up, designed and originally built by human minds and ‘hands’.

It is poetic justice that the things we assemble rebel against us, just as we have rebelled against that which assembled us.

---In the past, certain types of humans were considered things and were assembled in a labour force. They rebelled against the ‘us’, who assembled them together, of that time.
---If such a thing happens, causing the same violence in the future, with them assembled, is it poetic justice or the stupidity of not learning from the past?
---I am not saying that when these ‘beings’ come about, we should try to keep them as ‘things’, I am trying to show that repeating the same variables and creating the same pain, horror and death (on both sides) is complete idiocy. Trying to keep these beings as things, instead of what they will be/are, will simply lead to them to acting in the same manner before the war, as did the previous labour force.

[futrethink]

---Graybeard.

Perhaps you can also expand on this. Cryptic one liners don't really help much.

---Another way of looking at it: given enough time, thought, energy and resources, will someone determined enough figure out a way to get something done and find the loophole, which was never believed to have existed or been known to be possible?
---Be determined enough and you get what you want, even if others don’t want you to have it.

---As for a debate on ‘fate’ and ‘free will’, have fun with it, in relation to this thread, but don’t have it take over.

[ggullet]

I'm not sure how you mean this ? Are you referring to Science or Karma or both ?





If the question is what is truth ..... then you've got me ... lol

cool bananas ... greg

Hi Greg, I was referring to determinism as opposed to freewill, and I agree with futurethink that this thread is not really the forum for discussing probably the most divisive point in philosophy. That's why I was just making a throwaway (cryptic) comment. You are correct the question is that. peace