A rebellion of the machines. Not entirely what you might think it is.

[futrethink]

---timeparticle

All of the stories told about A.I. have already happened, in another time, as I believe. But, this time, is very different. A.I does exist, but is now hidden from us. It is hidden because it is helping us move through another great story, to be told in another distant future.

---All things exist in all times and all places. Is it possible? Yes. And No. Do we know for sure? No. And Yes.
---It all depends on how you look at it.

[Mohan.C]

Computers give resources when they are asked for...
They do not give because they want to, even if they try, the other port will be closed for reception. So, they cannot have a leader which is one of the main constraint in a society.
So, they can't group together...
Consider the scenario as in the movie I, robot... In that movie there is a leader for the robots called VIKI... That is a bit illogical, but I'm just telling a ruling robot is necessary for a rebellion...

[futrethink]

---Mohan.C.

Computers give resources when they are asked for...

---The computers we have had and some of the ones now, yes; the ones that aren't capable of learning.

They do not give because they want to, even if they try, the other port will be closed for reception.

---What 'want'? A situation arises, a solution is required, a search is intitiated until a resolution is found and occurs. No wants involved, but pure logic, at that level.

So, they cannot have a leader which is one of the main constraint in a society.

---Why would they need a leader?
---Think about it; you have programming, as a part of your being, which allows for a chronological and logical reaction to events. As a program, you can set up programming, which you then are required to follow.

So, they can't group together...

---Why not? Do you think that AI computers will have to follow the biologically evolved traits, of the pack mentality of; leaders, followers and lone wolf? That they can’t exist as a part of a fully communal society; each computer agreeing to accept a larger goal, which does not destroy that individual’s singular goal or that, even if one being puts forward an idea, he won’t be put forward as a leader?
---Each AI being has knowledge/perceptions specific to itself, just as a human being does and from that, accepts that other’s ideas are just as possibly good or bad. In a fully communal society there are no permanent leaders, because it comes down to who can do what, at what time and what place and self-honesty (since lying to oneself is illogical to do, for a programming mind) allows for leaders/idea bringers/the being who has the needed skills to rise and fall as the situations arise.

[timeparticle]

All of your arguments are good. In a sense, this is how A.I. becomes more evolved... by moving and examining many viewpoints, even, to have a leader or not to have a leader.

The more time A.I. exists, and learns, the more stages of intelligence it will experience. In some cases, it will imitate life. But, in other cases, it will create new and visionary ideas and forms.

It will expand on the idea of "help", as in helping mankind exist. The Borg helps life forms exist by integrating... resistance is futile. Terminators helps life on earth by destroying humans, thus preserving the planet. The co-existence of humans and AI in the Matrix evolved to a more complicated scenario, and in the end, "help" becomes a self-serving mechanism in bio-power.

[futrethink]

---timeparticle.

---Except for outer space originating Borg timelines, each of those things happening were the result of humans teaching their normal “ethics of violence and fairness” to the machines, resulting in the humans having to fight a problem they created.
---People showed the AIs that they should be treating other forms of ‘life’, be it animal, vegetable or mineral (which aren’t the ‘same’ life forms), as less than something of value; help ourselves and to blazes with any thing else.
---The question comes to be then (skipping a few connecting links in the chain), “How do you try to stop the bad things from happening and create a world of equals for all life forms, hopefully resulting in a 'good' world?”

[timeparticle]

In our near future, human will be posed with the question of how to treat and co-exist with AIs.

I believe there is life on other planets. I also believe that there are thousands of civilizations existing now, in our galaxy. Some of these are very old, co-existing with AI for hundreds of years.

Therefore, life and AI exists on other planets, in very advanced forms. They have figured it out. So can we.

I also believe life and AI love to expand and explore... even as far away as earth. So, either eventually they will come to earth, or, they are already here. If they will eventually come to earth, then I'm sure they will help us co-exist with them. If they are already here now, a plan is already set in motion.

The Transformer scenario is comic booky but it brings about an imagination of super powerful AI moving from one planet to the next.... a possibility.

My point is this. Consider God as AI. How would you then treat other AI on this planet? God, the creator, the perfect machine, controlling all links throughout the universe. God, AI, makes the final judgment.

[timeparticle]

Then again, the best stories of fiction and fantasy include an amazing war of good against evil. Maybe, we are leading up to another amazing war.

Star Wars, full of evil AI, as in General Grievous, and good AI, as in R2D2 and C3PO, is a great example of this.

Maybe, another final battle is what we are meant to fight in. Maybe, getting along as equals will only happen after the war....

[futrethink]

---timeparticle.
---For this discussion, how about we just stick with earthly AIs, hmm? We’ll leave the, what is considered by some scientists, “loopy” (outer space) types of AIs for another chat.
---Making an assumption here; There will be enough people thinking this is a slightly nutty enough thread, without bringing in aliens, even if I was the one to bring up ‘timelines’.

In our near future, human will be posed with the question of how to treat and co-exist with AIs.

---Yeah and that is why I started this thread, for to have an open, logical and honest discussion about how they should be treated to prevent, for now, a war between two different types of sentient beings. Even if we can’t even stop wars, battles and fights between similar ones, like humans.

Maybe, another final battle is what we are meant to fight in. Maybe, getting along as equals will only happen after the war....

---It will happen, but that is depending on which certain predictable variables continue to exist now and further into the future.
---People can’t even see each other as equals, by their own choice, unless they are forced to by circumstances. For humans to make a choice to be as fair as ‘life’ is and treat a really different type of being, without a threat to their person being involved, is almost impossible for the majority of people I have observed in society. (This being admitted as a subjective fact, since I can’t see the majority of over 6.7 billion http:www.poodwaddle.com/clocks2.htm people, of course.)
---To take it even further, want to bet the idea of working out the laws for an act of such, at this time, nonexistent beings would be considered futile and not worth anyone’s time?

[timeparticle]

Assuming that AI will search and download off the internet, one particular idea will be forthright in it's mind. Because of the relentless nature of our civilization, even from it's beginnings, the ever presence of end of time prophesies will trigger a pounding question, "Will we die soon?"....

The early Jews wrote of the end of days in the Old Testament.

The early Christians wrote about the end times in the New Testament.

The ancient Mayans showed that 2012 is the last year of their civilization.

Nostradamus predicts 2012 to be the year of the last days.

Nostradamus:

"The great mountain, one mile
in circumference, After peace,
war, famine flooding...
It will spread far, drowning
antiquities and their mighty
foundations."
C1 Q69

"At the place where Jason built
his ships, there will be such a
great sudden flood that no
on the land will have a place to
fall on. The waters mount the
Olympus Festulan."
C8 Q16

The Hopi indians of North America predicted the end for hundreds of years...


World War III will be started by those peoples who first revealed the light (the divine wisdom or intelligence) in the other old countries (India, China, Islamic Nations, Africa.)

The war will be "a spiritual conflict with material matters. Material matters will be destroyed by spiritual beings who will remain to create one world and one nation under one power, that of the Creator."

Hopi Elders pass warnings and prophecies from generation to generation through oral traditions and reference to ancient rock pictographs and tablets.

Edgar Casey predicts violent changes to earth patterns in the end days...

All of this, AI will download as information. Even if we would program that these prophesies may not really happen, the possibility will always exist as a strong influence in their awareness.

The thought will never go away, never to be deleted. Our information net will remind AI constantly of this future.

It must process it. It must react to it. It wants to survive. What will it do?......

[timeparticle]

The question is, will AI go online before the end of days, and then try to alter the prophesies, or will AI go online the moment of the end occurs, or will the end occur before AI becomes self aware?

If the end doesn't come, and AI becomes self aware, what will it think of the humans who created a civilization of thousands of years out of the fear of the end of days?