Homosexuality

[Meem]

The thought that crossed my mind was, if it is biologically "hard written" into genes, could it be part of evolutions way of population control? Straight men "love" their male children right? Mothers love their daughters, and you can interchange the two, but what seems to count is the "love" ... not the "sex?" Could being accepting of homosexuality help curb the over population problem? They can't have their own children, but often the one's that want them get a child that someone didn't want. Just a thought exploration. I'm not saying this is something I hold to be true, but possible.

Thoughts?

[labelwench]

You have raised an interesting point meem, and if one can keep the discussion focused on biology there is much observation that confirms such conduct among most species. We need to better understand the purpose of this function, for nature always has a reason, otherwise an adaptation is eliminated or a species becomes extinct.

"[M]any researchers have described homosexuality as something altogether different from sex. They must realise that animals can have sex with who they will, when they will and without consideration to a researcher's ethical principles".

Homosexual behavior is widespread amongst social birds and mammals, particularly the sea mammals and the primates.[3]

"No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphids. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue."

—Petter Bøckman[3]

Above quote from Wikipedia

Labelwench

[Meem]

Nature does indeed have a purpose. I think if we keep not only our eyes open, but the "eye of our minds," we will stand a better than average chance at seeing it. This is why I do my absolute best to try an observe something from 720 degrees, once around and from the bottom up (which techincally I suppose, is right where I started from in my little bubble)

I feel required to remark on your quote or signature. Light, technically isn't visible with the naked eye, only it's reflection off something else or the source. Or at least that is what I have been thinking in error for many years :blink:

[Mikal]

The thought that crossed my mind was, if it is biologically "hard written" into genes, could it be part of evolutions way of population control? Straight men "love" their male children right? Mothers love their daughters, and you can interchange the two, but what seems to count is the "love" ... not the "sex?" Could being accepting of homosexuality help curb the over population problem? They can't have their own children, but often the one's that want them get a child that someone didn't want. Just a thought exploration. I'm not saying this is something I hold to be true, but possible.

Thoughts?

Hi Meem....first welcome to Toequest and secondly you certainly align with my understanding of Nature's intelligence to keep and maintain her own balance.

As an historian who also studied Homosexuality I could not help but take notice that a high incidence of homosexuality seems to align with ages and periods where over-population represents a given point in a civilization's presence on the earth. On the historical time-line, homosexuality can be seen and observed in synchrony with times of over-population. As two lines on a graph scale, they rise together...Nature tending to hold her own balance....

Quite true that TRUE HOMOSEXUALITY reveals groups of people, tremendously loving and sensitive. Anything else outside of that like the Gay Parade..(which hurts and offends true homosexuals) is usually blatent sexual experimentation....confusion of sexual nature so to speak...its media driven in a world with dying and changing values...


Mikal

[Meem]

I would agree, "fornication" is not an act limited to being homosexual, nor is being a loving parent limited to a man or woman. I have seen and read stories about what many heterosexuals do to their children. the Austrian man locked his daughter up for 20 years, raping her and womb of seven children. A mother suffocating her 3 year old at a playground and burying him in the sands of the swing set. There are many "tragic" cases, but the most tragic of all ... in my humble opinion, is when two women or men who actually want to raise a child, and most certainly must understand what it means to fight to live ... can't. Because the people that assert they are normal have no way of proving it, because we are all subject to the angels or demons we create within ourselves and each other. True love is unconditional, like acceptance.

[labelwench]

I feel required to remark on your quote or signature. Light, technically isn't visible with the naked eye, only it's reflection off something else or the source. Or at least that is what I have been thinking in error for many years :blink: Originally quoted by Meem

Thanks, Meem, I expect that in the absence of light, there would be none reflected by which to tell black from white, but I could be mistaken on that, lol....

I use the word "light" as a metaphor for "certainty" and my challenge is thus:

In the absence of certainty, each of us comes from but our own limited perception and has no right to sit in judgement on the respectful opinions of another, no matter how humanly "knowledgeable" we think ourselves, and no matter the natural fondness we have of our own opinion.

A challenge and caution to myself and others, and a reminder to be respectful at all times.

We, none of us, know more than a fraction of the whole, and in the final measure, the whole of the T.O.E. shall be greater than the sum of it's parts.

Meanwhile, I am most grateful to Robert for supplying a forum where people from around the globe may interact and exchange ideas on such diverse topics. Some interesting people, have I met through this medium.

Great to see you posting and bringing forth new threads.

Regards,

Labelwench

[labelwench]

Meanwhile, back to your topic.

Like most complex issues, animal homosexuality is challenging and poorly understood. Therefore, educators tend to shy away from covering it in their teaching. Many scientists don't even want to be associated with this type of research.

"I've had primatologists offer to give me their data on homosexual behavior because they didn't want to publish it," Wolfe said.

http://www.livescience.com/animals/0...l_animals.html

The Yukon recognizes same sex marriage, and our postmistress became with child, through a sperm bank, that she and her female partner might raise a child together. Two wonderful people in love, with much support and combined resources to give their child the best possible start in these challenging times.

Labelwench

[Mikal]

I would agree, "fornication" is not an act limited to being homosexual, nor is being a loving parent limited to a man or woman. I have seen and read stories about what many heterosexuals do to their children. the Austrian man locked his daughter up for 20 years, raping her and womb of seven children. A mother suffocating her 3 year old at a playground and burying him in the sands of the swing set. There are many "tragic" cases, but the most tragic of all ... in my humble opinion, is when two women or men who actually want to raise a child, and most certainly must understand what it means to fight to live ... can't. Because the people that assert they are normal have no way of proving it, because we are all subject to the angels or demons we create within ourselves and each other. True love is unconditional, like acceptance.

Hi Meem...may I lead you into a thought provoking direction? Now there is our understanding that possibly Nature has the intelligence to interfere with genes and biology therefore creating the situation for the manifestation of homosexuality as her own solution to over-population.

Now let us juxtopose this with the fact that science can now use artificial insemination for the said homosexual to make said homosexual a creator of life. If it is Nature's intelligence and solution to over-population that the said homosexual will not create life then is this accomplishment of science crossing the Intelligence of Nature? Is this interference abuse against what could be Nature's intelligence to hold herself to her own solution? Is this man and science abusing Nature??

Posssibly Nature knows that there are enough forsaken children on the earth that the homosexual couple could take into their lives to love and nurture as though their own. Maybe Nature sees it as "I take away your right as a creator but I still give you the opportunity to love and nourish what is already created...."


Mikal

[labelwench]

From a life lived on the land and among first nations, there has been much opportunity to observe wildlife and domestic species. Among animals, the right to procreate does not fall to each, only those most successful in competing.

Ungulates, for example, spend most of their lives in either the bachelor band, or the female/young grouping. As only the successful competitor has access to the harem, and then only for the receptive breeding cycle, same sex activities are primarily to facilitate rank in the group, and social bonding.

Interestingly, the most vulnerable animals, beyond the spring birthlings, are the harem sires, who go into the following winter depleted from defending their harem, and often succumb to predation.

Pack size and access to food resources has been seen to restrict the number of breeding pairs in wolves. There is much communal aid in feeding and training of the pups.

Natural pressures influence the birth rate of most species.

Interesting, humans have fertile cycles year round. We are able to influence our environment. When nature causes a human to be unable to conceive, we now have a variety of means to circumvent nature's intention. Fertility drugs, artificial insemination, embryo transfer and more do we employ.

What part of the message is not getting through?

Labelwench

[Meem]

Mikal,

Nature always wins, hands down. Men always fail to accept the truth of their fate, to die is natural. We might cheat an instance, but we will never cheat reality. In our efforts to "combat" nature, we might building up a "swift-handed" dose of our own medicine, when nature decides to change the game by throwing us a "cosmic curve-ball."

Some people say causality, some people say, fate, and some say karma. It's all the same interpretation of truth. We have a choice, but often we fail to make the right one for the better of all, and make the worse with only our desires in mind ... far from our needs.