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Raider of the lost time
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,036
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01-30-2006, 02:34 PM
| | who are the Prigoginians?
These are scientists or mathematicians who study what happens at the edge of chaos, the boundary between chaos and order. The emerging complexity is obviously nonlinear, dynamically far from equilibrium, viciously indeterministic, irreversible, high spatial fluctuation and extremely sensitive to the time parameter.
The Prigoginians can also be known as chaoticians. They believe that order of self-similar patterns can form out of chaos. These patterns can then be used to predict future occurrence as an adaptive mechanism for self-organization, self-preservation, and self-improvement. The resulting structure is dissipative, meaning it needs more sustainable energy than its surrounding.
Chaoticians can be an inhomogeneous group composed of physicists, chemists, economists, biologists, industrialists, environmentalists, engineers, architects and urban planners, scientific theologians, political scientists. Collective, they work toward a common goal, the self-organization of a local society or culture or globally at a larger scale, a nation. Even though self-interest abounds within each component, the objective function is to optimize the whole enterprise through cooperation and competition.
Some of these personalities are described in M Mitchell Waldrop’s book: ‘Complexity’, 1992. Some can be found in Gleick’s book: ‘Chaos’. In the USA, the research center is the Santa Fe Institute located in New Mexico. In Europe, the Prigoginians are concentrated in the Brussels school of Belgium.
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Time independence: [∂E(g)]²=[∂F(a)×∂r(a)]·[∂F(b)×∂r(b)] and Mass independence: ¶a(t)·¶r(t)=c²
| | | | The Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,278
48  | |
01-30-2006, 04:33 PM
| | We think that chaos and chaos theory are complex. They aren't, in fact they are quite simple. The complex thing is to understand complexity. And this is the role of chaos theory. Our problem rellys not on understanding chaos' complexitiy, but in chaos' study of complexity. | | | | Raider of the lost time
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,036
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01-31-2006, 02:22 PM
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by GUILLE They aren't, in fact they are quite simple. | I still haven't seen a simple equation coming out of chaos theory.
__________________
Time independence: [∂E(g)]²=[∂F(a)×∂r(a)]·[∂F(b)×∂r(b)] and Mass independence: ¶a(t)·¶r(t)=c²
| | | | The Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,278
48 | |
01-31-2006, 02:38 PM
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by AntonioLao I still haven't seen a simple equation coming out of chaos theory. | I have. I had to give the book I had about chaos theory introduction, back to the library, but I remember there were some very easy ones. Anyay not really the math I'm talking: more the concepts. Strange atractors, unpredictable systems... All these are easy things to understand. | | | | 4th degree Black Belt
Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 587
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01-31-2006, 06:59 PM
| | I remember having to give the book "Thompson's Calculus For The Practical Worker" back to the library and never found it there again, but I was at the time, '85 or thereabouts, completely self-taught in differential calculus, a subject that a couple of my pathetic high school teachers tried to teach and failed miserably in doing because of their ineptitude, read: lack of knowledge. Anyway, I did every problem in that first half of the book, there were many at the end of each chapter, and I actually corrected a number of the ones with the wrong answers in the back. I wrote in the right answers in the appropriate places and probably commented in the margins, I don't actually remember - I was notorious for playing with the margins of my high school texts back when, usually some semi-pornographic flip-page cartoon, like a flying fuddoo or something, really quite effective in thick texts, did I mention I also did a little schoolwork on occasion? Nothing substantial mind you. Anyway, I wanted to go on to integrals but I lost interest after a while when the book failed to reappear on the shelf and I started reading computer mags. Point is, it seems to me that prigoginians, or maybe prigs for short, seem to be a lot like people who like to correct other people's mistakes. Now, I don't think that I'm a prigoginian, or a prig for that matter, but I was also one for always making a mess of my in-class assignments because of this disturbing habit I had of correcting my mistakes, you know, cross-outs, overwrites, etc but at least I was usually correct. Take note, Antonio, I was never a flunky per se. But am I a prigoginian?
__________________  "There is nothing permanent except change" | | | | Raider of the lost time
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,036
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02-01-2006, 02:02 PM
| | order out of chaos
Quote: |
Originally Posted by baudrunner But am I a prigoginian? | You are if you can transform order out of chaos restoring the balance of the Force. Transform garbage into industrial fuel, solve the global food problem, population problem, livable land problem, health (physical and mental) problem, energy problem, etc.
__________________
Time independence: [∂E(g)]²=[∂F(a)×∂r(a)]·[∂F(b)×∂r(b)] and Mass independence: ¶a(t)·¶r(t)=c²
| | | | Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7,749
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02-04-2007, 10:28 PM
|  Re: who are the Prigoginians?
We are all chaoticians.in our own ways we all try to bring some order into our lives,we learn from our chaotic past to negotiate our way through the potential minefield of human
exchanges and relationships.
regards michael.
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Humilty,coupled with boldness,surprises truth to
reveal herself? | | | | Raider of the lost time
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,036
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02-21-2007, 04:56 PM
| | Re: who are the Prigoginians?
Quote: |
Originally Posted by mkirkpatrick We are all chaoticians. | Is the vacuum the seat of absolute chaos?
__________________
Time independence: [∂E(g)]²=[∂F(a)×∂r(a)]·[∂F(b)×∂r(b)] and Mass independence: ¶a(t)·¶r(t)=c²
| | | | Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 7,749
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02-21-2007, 06:50 PM
| Re: who are the Prigoginians?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioLao  Is the vacuum the seat of absolute chaos? | It could very well be?However chaos is really a deep form of unity?
regards michael.
__________________
Humilty,coupled with boldness,surprises truth to
reveal herself? | | | | Raider of the lost time
Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,036
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02-22-2007, 03:28 PM
| | Re: who are the Prigoginians?
Quote: |
Originally Posted by mkirkpatrick chaos is really a deep form of unity? | Order out of chaos - a book by Prigogine http://www.mountainman.com.au/chaos_02.htm
__________________
Time independence: [∂E(g)]²=[∂F(a)×∂r(a)]·[∂F(b)×∂r(b)] and Mass independence: ¶a(t)·¶r(t)=c²
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