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  1. #1
    Fearless ToeQuest Leader Robert is a name known to all Robert is a name known to all Robert is a name known to all
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    2008-05-03: Thought Experiments

    Continuing with our chat every other Saturday schedule, our next topic-driven chat session will be held this coming Saturday, May 3rd, at 8pm GMT. Since our last topic related to physics, I thought we would venture into philosophy this time. The topic is...

    Thought Experiments

    From Wikipedia, a thought experiment is the use of a hypothetical scenario or imaginary situation to help us understand the way things actually are. So, this is an experiment conducted in thought and reasoning only and often takes the view of an extreme case so the situation and implications are more clear.

    Several examples can be found in the Wikipedia definition. One example I'll summarize is the "brain in a vat". This particular thought experiment involves removing a person's brain from the body, suspend it in a vat of life-sustaining liquid, and connect its neurons by wires to a supercomputer which would provide it with electrical impulses identical to those the brain normally receives. The computer could then simulate a virtual environment so that the person with the "disembodied" brain would continue to have a perfectly normal conscious experience without it being related to objects or events in the real world. I wonder, how can we know what our situation really is?

    That's just one example we can discuss but there are many others. We can cover one and see where that leads or we might hit on several. I'll give another example later, but if you think of any, post it here for an early start. The thought experiments should relate to philosophical questions.

    References
    The ToeQuest Thought Experiment Forum.
    Brain in a vat definition in Wikipedia.
    The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy definition.

    When is the chat in my local time?
    I have a countdown timer on the home page, but you can also go to the timezone converter website to convert the 8pm GMT time to your local time. At the website select the "Use The Following Date/Time" option and enter the day and time of the chat (May 3rd, 8pm) and select GMT in the "From Time Zone" section and your location in the "To Time Zone" section, then click convert. This will give you the time of the chat meeting in own local time.
    Texas, U.S. - 3pm
    California, U.S. - 1pm
    New York, U.S. - 4pm
    Britain, London - 9pm
    Madrid, Spain - 10pm
    Melbourne, Australia - Sunday, 6am
    Paris, France - 10pm
    India, Calcutta - Sunday, 1:30am
    Sweden - 10pm
    New Zealand - Sunday, 8am
    Let's use this thread for the pre-chat discussion and please remember to vote in this thread's poll so we can all know who's attending. However, last minute drop-ins are also welcome.
    "I'm going on a TOE Quest!" twitter...

  2. #2
    The Observer dleviwing is a splendid one to behold dleviwing is a splendid one to behold dleviwing is a splendid one to behold dleviwing is a splendid one to behold dleviwing is a splendid one to behold
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    Re: 2008-05-03: Thought Experiments

    Sorry, can’t make it; the family has other plans for my birthday.

    Thought experiments do not produce any real data and thus they have no value; I prefer the real deal.
    David

  3. #3
    Grandmaster dipayankar is just really nice dipayankar is just really nice
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    Re: 2008-05-03: Thought Experiments

    Looks interesting, though I dont think I understood the concept very much.
    Last edited by dleviwing; 05-02-2008 at 02:38 PM. Reason: RQ

  4. #4
    White Belt GIRDHARILAL is on a distinguished road
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    Re: 2008-05-03: Thought Experiments

    Quote Originally Posted by dleviwing View Post
    Sorry, can’t make it; the family has other plans for my birthday.

    Thought experiments do not produce any real data and thus they have no value; I prefer the real deal.
    Genrating empathy are first thought experiments,0ne thirty am India will gererate any ampathy,I shall keep traking

  5. #5
    Moderator mkirkpatrick has much to be proud of mkirkpatrick has much to be proud of mkirkpatrick has much to be proud of mkirkpatrick has much to be proud of mkirkpatrick has much to be proud of mkirkpatrick has much to be proud of
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    Smile Re: 2008-05-03: Thought Experiments

    Thanks Robert will be there God willing-btw what about Turkish Time?




    warm regards michael.
    Humilty,coupled with boldness,surprises truth to
    reveal herself?

  6. #6
    Fearless ToeQuest Leader Robert is a name known to all Robert is a name known to all Robert is a name known to all
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    Re: 2008-05-03: Thought Experiments

    If your computer time is correct for your location then the countdown timer on the ToeQuest homepage will be correct. That might be the better time to go by if you're unsure of your timezone conversion.

    I must disagree with Dave regarding thought experiments. They may not produce any real data but I believe their value lies in their ability to clarify existing data. For example, imagine a computer that can flawlessly respond to questions in Chinese with answers, also in Chinese. This computer easily passes the Turing test. One might think that the computer understands the Chinese language. But if you were aware of the Chinese Room thought experiment you might be convinced to think otherwise.

    Unfortunately I am trapped in my office of my day job and nobody will let me out. I can occasionally get access to the Internet to send out a message or two without my keepers knowing. I'll try to pop in to the chat off and on but will be unable to attend full-time. However, once I escape I'll post a transcript of the chat for all to see.

    Oh, Happy Birthday Dave!

    --Robert
    "I'm going on a TOE Quest!" twitter...

  7. #7
    In Training basil is on a distinguished road
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    Re: 2008-05-03: Thought Experiments

    To Girdharilal,

    Any attempt at a TOE must include thought... unless you regard your thoughts as unreal & insignificant. How can anyone even contemplate a TOE without thought?

    Thanks

    Basil

  8. #8
    In Training basil is on a distinguished road
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    Re: 2008-05-03: Thought Experiments

    The Chinese room experiment demonstrates perfectly the thought procedure? Genes possess instinctive memories which are intrinsically necessary & preserved for survival. Genes also possess memories on another (magnetic)level which can be adapted & modified according to physical & environmental limitations... has anyone heard of the locust which only develops fully functional wings (in the egg) when the locust population is high & therefore, there is a high demand for food? Scientists thought that these locusts were a different species for a long time! Genes are then passed on through birth whereby the layered memories are dominated (epigenomes) by current situations... physical & environmental possibilities... with a lingering memory from previous genetic experiences. Anyone who believes in evolution must accept that thought & memory play a part?

  9. #9
    In Training basil is on a distinguished road
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    Re: 2008-05-03: Thought Experiments

    Well bugger me... I've joined in for the first tme & realised that any possible interested parties are offline!? Do I smell or sumat?... Is it me or the topic? I was hoping for a great Saturday night debate! Thought is what makes us who we are? Every species 'thinks' to a certain degree & anthropologists argue that language differentiates humans from animals?... But I don't believe that there is a definitive point?... Species evolve according to their physical & environmental possibilities? Genes & memories contain & maitain all the 'good stuff' & reject or appoint all the crap... so we are on a gradual journey of improvement & enlightenment. Why is it that the scientists don't see that?

  10. #10
    Moderator Graybeard has a brilliant future Graybeard has a brilliant future Graybeard has a brilliant future Graybeard has a brilliant future Graybeard has a brilliant future Graybeard has a brilliant future Graybeard has a brilliant future
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    Re: 2008-05-03: Thought Experiments

    Quote Originally Posted by basil View Post
    Well bugger me... I've joined in for the first tme & realised that any possible interested parties are offline!? Do I smell or sumat?... Is it me or the topic? I was hoping for a great Saturday night debate! Thought is what makes us who we are? Every species 'thinks' to a certain degree & anthropologists argue that language differentiates humans from animals?... But I don't believe that there is a definitive point?... Species evolve according to their physical & environmental possibilities? Genes & memories contain & maitain all the 'good stuff' & reject or appoint all the crap... so we are on a gradual journey of improvement & enlightenment. Why is it that the scientists don't see that?
    I'm not a Scientist ... but Scientists do see that. Good Post.

    (check my 'Early Man' thread ... which follows your line of reasoning)

    cool bananas ... greg
    'Blondie says I must hate all Brunettes. I'll try, but if I can't ... I'll love them both'
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