[Robert]

The mind seems to be profoundly affected by changes to the brain. Studies into patients that suffer from various kinds of brain damage have shown some of the most bizzare types of behavior, changes in personality, and interpretations of reality. For example, a condition called anosognosia means "unawareness of illness". One can suffer a severe disabling injury yet be unaware that there is a problem. There is a case of a patient who was unaware that he was blind. A condition known as somatoparaphrenia could cause someone with a paralized arm to claim that it is their brother's arm. There's the story of the man who mistook his wife for a hat. These people can be completely rational in all other respects.

From these examples, and many others, it would appear that our mind is subject to the flaws in the physical brain. It also seems that our personalities are very much dependent on our brains. So, if the soul does survive death, it must be very different from who you consider yourself to be.

An excellent article that goes into these matters in detail can be found here. An excellent book that goes into these stories and more can be found at "Phantoms in the Brain". It was certainly an eye opener for me.

Regards,
--Robert

[Robert]

It seems that a lot of the evidence supporting dualism is ancedotal. Some are even mildly convincing. For example, people who die and are brought back to life, often tell similar stories about floating above their bodies, watching the doctors attempt to revive them, then going down a long dark tunnel, viewing memories of their life, and meeting loved ones who had passed on before. They are sometimes told by their loved ones that their time has not yet come and to go back to their physical bodies to continue their life.

There are books writing on past life regression, out-of-body travels, remote viewing. It seems there was a group of remote viewers working for the U.S. department of defense at one time to obtain information remotely. There are a series of Seth books where Jane Roberts goes into a trance and channels a spirit entity that talks about how the soul travels to the afterlife after death. The paranormal section of book stores are quite large.

Much of this can and should be scientifically dismissed. But all? Not sure. If any one of these areas have any validity it should be integrated with and explained by the Theory of Everything.

Regards,
--Robert

[Guille]

(I'm trying to reply all the threads before I leave to Oxford).


I think the mind is just the activity of the brain. Maybe activity can be defined as un-structured matter, or a special kind of matter. I'm not sure.

There are two minds: consciousness and sub-consciousness. Consciousness is what we think and realize we do, and do it opn purpose. Sub-consciousness is all the rest. Much more. For example, it is our emotions. When we have strong, important moments, the emotional mind get's on top of the thinking one (sub consciousness, paradoxically, gets over consciousness, now it is consciousness which is sub). In the begining we, as all animals, only had only sub-consciousness, emotions. The thinking avolved from this one. There are many times in which the thinking is on top of the othe rone. Think about it. I think budhism or hinduism is all about that.

[Robert]

I posted a cleaned up version of the chat session in the first post of this thread.

[JAK]

Originally Posted by Robert ... This chat session is a little different from previous chats but will explore a fascinating phenomenon for many. The topic for this chat session is... Ghost in the Machine Regards, --Robert

Hmm ... the transcript looks suspiciously like the transcript from June 12th.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by JAK Hmm ... the transcript looks suspiciously like the transcript from June 12th.

Sorry about that, I should have verified it after the upload. I did manage to find the correct version and it has been uploaded and verified.

Regards,
--Robert

[Steve Hanson]

1. Awareness is the hallmark of life and is an action of living things.
2. Is action a result of something attempting to achieve equilibrium?
If so, that would seem to imply that awareness is an activity that results from something being out of equilibrium.
also...
3. Since there is so much action occuring in the universe, it would seem that something is constantly forcing it out of equilibrium, equilibrium being basically stillness. It would also seem to imply that whatever that is, it's happening at the smallest scale and it's happening all the time.

[JAK]

Originally Posted by Steve Hanson 1. Awareness is the hallmark of life and is an action of living things. ...

Careful ... When a bacterium bumps into an object and switches direction, is that awareness? Is grass aware? Is DNA aware? Is viral RNA aware?

Or do you suggest that "life" does not begin until awareness begins? Jellyfish have nerve cells. Is that sufficient? If not, what level is sufficient - reptilian brain? mammilian brain? dog brain? dolphin brain? human brain?

Originally Posted by Steve Hanson ... 2. Is action a result of something attempting to achieve equilibrium? If so, that would seem to imply that awareness is an activity that results from something being out of equilibrium. ...

Given the tendency for the universe to move toward "heat death" (maximum entropy), a strong case was made by Erwin Schrodinger in the 1940s ("What is Life?") that life must climb toward "negative entropy" (greater order) to survive. At maximum entropy (maximum equilibrium and chaos), no "work cycles" are possible, so life (and awareness) cannot exist (Stuart Kauffman, 1990s).

Originally Posted by Steve Hanson ... 3. Since there is so much action occuring in the universe, it would seem that something is constantly forcing it out of equilibrium, equilibrium being basically stillness. It would also seem to imply that whatever that is, it's happening at the smallest scale and it's happening all the time.

Gravity appears to move oppositely to entropy. As interstellar gas condenses, stars (high energy sources) are formed. Essentially, resources go from relatively disordered, low energy sources (high entropy) to well ordered, complex, systematic, high energy sources (low entropy). Of course, at that point, they emit electromagnetic radiation, so they begin wasting away toward greater entropy. The question of infinite expansion of the universe verses cyclical expansions/contractions (quasi steady state, I believe may be the term for it) becomes the crux of the issue of life in the future.

[Steve Hanson]

JAK:Careful ... When a bacterium bumps into an object and switches direction, is that awareness? Is grass aware? Is DNA aware? Is viral RNA aware?

Well, we are aware of our awareness. I would say that to the extent that something responds to its surroundings and modifies its behavior accordingly, that would seem to indicate awareness.
In our case, we are even aware of our awareness and consciously make choices to enhance it, or at least we can and sometimes do.
Sometimes we even confuse ourselves so much that we learn how to ignore a basically sound observation.

[JAK]

Originally Posted by Steve Hanson Well, we are aware of our awareness. I would say that to the extent that something responds to its surroundings and modifies its behavior accordingly, that would seem to indicate awareness. In our case, we are even aware of our awareness and consciously make choices to enhance it, or at least we can and sometimes do. Sometimes we even confuse ourselves so much that we learn how to ignore a basically sound observation.

I believe you are following the path commonly termed "self-awareness." Research seems to indicate that humans (and maybe chimps and dolphins) are "self-aware." They look in a mirror (or TV monitor) and realize they are seeing their own image. Lower animals tend to see their own reflection and react as if the image was another animal.