2005-07-09: What Causes Gravity?

[Robert]

This next chat session will be held on Saturday, July 9th at 3:00pm Central Standard Time (CST) also known as (GMT-6). You can use the timezone converter to convert to your local time. Once there, enter the day and time as specified above, then select US/Central in the "From Time Zone" column and your own location in the "To Time Zone" column, then click Convert. Be sure and unclick the "Use Current Date/Time" option. This will give you the time of the chat meeting in your own local time.



Some other areas:

Texas, U.S. - Saturday, 3:00pm
California, U.S. - Saturday, 1:00pm
India - Sunday, 1:30am
London - Saturday, 9:00pm
Madrid, Spain - Saturday, 10:00pm
Melbourne, Australia - Saturday, 10:00pm
New Zealand - Sunday, 8:00am
Sweden - Saturday, 10:00pm
Canada, Eastern - Saturday, 4:00pm

This will be our eighth official ToeQuest chat meeting. Chat meetings are usually scheduled every two weeks using alternating times: Fri-11pm, Sat-3pm, Sun-7am (Central Standard Time). Since our community has 584 members from 73 countries, I use this schedule to reach the widest audience possible.

This chat session will cover a more popular topic in the ToeQuest Forums. The topic for this chat session is...

What Causes Gravity?

The standard definition of gravity is that it's a universal attraction between physical objects where F = GMm/r^2. Gravity is unique in that it is a extremely weak force yet a dominant force on cosmological scales due to it being a long range force and a cumulative force. Einstein proposed that gravity is a consequence of the curvature of space-time. Gravity has also been described as a pushing force due to ether compression and as a pulling force.

Here are some references that might be useful in preparing for the chat:

1. Gravity Probe B background and status.
2. Gravity Probe B executive summary.
3. ToeQuest Exploring Gravity Forum.
4. Wisp Unification Theory on Gravity.
5. Wikipedia's Definition of Gravity.

Please add your pre-chat comments to this thread. If you have any topics you would like to discuss, you might post it here ahead of time.

I'm also investigating a new chat facility that may be operational by Saturday. We'll see...

Regards,
--Robert

[Steve Hanson]

Don't exclude McCutcheon's theory that gravity is an effect of expansion at the atomic level. It is the simplest and most straight forward explanation I have ever seen.

Steve

[dipayankar]

Wow 1:30 am. I will surely have to try to keep awake for this session.

[dleviwing]

What is fundamental matter? Unlike atomic matter, the fundamental stuff of the universe dose not have to obey manmade laws of physics based on observation and measurement. This is the stuff that existed before the Big Bang and it is still the stuff of the universe that is now organized as space, atomic structure, and subatomic structure. This is the stuff that we observe to be warping and distorting by Einstein's view of space and gravity. Understanding this fundamental stuff of the universe is all that is needed to understand all the phenomena we observe as our universe including GRAVITY.

Any concept is a futile effort and a waist of time if it cannot reduce its terminology to this level of fundamental substance and explain the properties and interactions of this substance. I have not yet seen this in any proposed theory or on any website. Many have realize that an "Ether" concept is required to explain gravity, but none have been successful at defining this form of fundamental matter an how it interacts to produce gravity. We already have the mathematics that work, we do not need any more equations as explanations of gravity; we need explanations that justify the math. Those who continue to create more math solutions are in the realm of the "Never Ending Story". Correct the paradigm philosophy of physics and reality will be revealed with all its simplicity.

In a simple statement:
Gravity is the process of structured fundamental matter (atomic & subatomic particles) condensing unstructured fundamental matter (space, ether, Aether, etc.) by means of absorption.

[island]

In a simple statement:
Gravity is the process of structured fundamental matter (atomic & subatomic particles) condensing unstructured fundamental matter (space, ether, Aether, etc.) by means of absorption.

Gravity is the result of an inherent asymmetry in the energy that causes an imbalance in the G=0 vacuum that condenses vacuum energy locally, (rho>0), via locally isolated regions of mass-energy.

"unstructured fundamental matter" would be negative pressure "space", whose energy density is less than the matter density, you can't get "structured fundamental matter" out of that until you isolate enough mass-energy to compress it down to a point that it achieves postive matter density, pressure, and gravitational curvature, over a finite region of space.

THEN you can hit it with a 1.2MeV photon to make it permanent.

This physicist's faq website explains the model for the physics used above via a very clear and easy to understand laymans treatment:

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmo_constant.html

[dleviwing]

Island;
Though what you say is a functional understanding of gravity, it dose not explain cause and effect in fundamental terminology. The term "Energy" is "Matter in a state of Motion" and NOT an entity unto itself as implied by your statement. Mass is a measure of potential energy and not a true quantitative measure of fundamental matter. Energy is in reality the measure of a change in the distribution of motion of an object.

My one liner statement was not intended to provide an amazing new understanding of what gravity is; it was intended to show that we must start with a new paradigm of absolute fundamentals in order to actually understand natures so-called secretes of the universe. Our current mathematical theories are excellent as they stand, we do not need to re-invent the wheel any further.

The vacuum energy you refer to is nothing more than the random vibration of the spatial matter of our universe. Yes the spatial density (energy density) must be extremely higher to form particulate structure of matter. This occurred at the high density phase of the BB and is now occurring at the heart of the protons as a function of the quarks. It is also occurring in the matter of we refer to as Black Holes. Until we understand the pure physical mechanics of the system, we cannot proclaim true understanding.
Join the chat, I think we can make it quite interesting.

[island]

Island;
Though what you say is a functional understanding of gravity, it dose not explain cause and effect in fundamental terminology. The term "Energy" is "Matter in a state of Motion" and NOT an entity unto itself as implied by your statement.

uhhhhh... maybe you'd better study the link for the G=0 physics that I'm using before you put your foot in any further...

[hdeasy]

Heim's theory with its precise (relative error 1 in 10**4) mass predictions appears to be most successful in uniting the gravity theory of relativity with quantum theory. But if it's theory of gravity leans too much toward geometrodynamics, it leaves some of the mysteries of gravity unanswered. E.g. Van Flandern has a good point about the speed of gravity - it would appear to be 'essentially infinite' i.e. >> c, as if equal to c then gravitational aberration would lead to planets spiralling out of solar system: reminisicent of great UV disaster pre-quantum. GR forces absence of abberation by putting in angular momentum conservation by hand - but the result is the ugly 'retarded force' where the forces seems to anticipate the location of the perturbed body. So, Newton was right to say he only described motion under gravity - the mystery of what it really is is wrapped in an enigma. Continual miracle may be as good a hypothesis as any, a la Newton.

[dleviwing]

uhhhhh... maybe you'd better study the link for the G=0 physics that I'm using before you put your foot in any further...

Island;
Do you really think this explains anything???

[island]

Island;
Do you really think this explains anything???

What are you talking about?