[mkirkpatrick]

Nature is a vast storehouse of chemical interactions,all of this manifests
around us,and we are for the best part unaware of this process.Photo-
synthesis being so important in the creation of oxygen,and providing food
for many.Transforming chemicals,and creating sugars,is a natural alchemy in
which nature does a grand job,I want to make the point here,that the natural
chemistry of nature,which is another word for alchemy,has nothing to do with
the past,or the "middle ages" it is about today?

kind regards michael.

[baudrunner]

The "if it works why fix it" syndrome is a projection from the temporally conscious entities called humans. Evolution is a working process that constantly fixes itself as it is always happening, now. Trepidation is a temporal thing that seeks to fix the time forever in the present, but since evolution acellerates it always fixes itself now.

[harmonygirl]

Okay, I'm having a little trouble understanding why this would be alchemy, Michael. I had understood alchemy to involve a process by which art, science, philosophy and spirituality were combined. Isn't photosynthesis simply a process by which a plant survives? What am I missing?

[mkirkpatrick]

You are quite right of course,Harmony,Alchemy,has to do with art,science,
philosophy,and spirituality,combined,or looked at seperately,but what I want
to bring out in this thread also,is that,chemistry,alchemy,are natural occur-
ing aspects of nature,and that man has "borrowed" from this,and has brought
about the said disciplines,of art,science,chemistry.!


kind regards michael.

[harmonygirl]

Michael, are you saying that that photosynthesis was part of a spiritual, artistic, philosophical process and we have separated it so that it is just chemistry? I wonder if we are really able to do that? I wonder if all of these other aspects are there already and we just ignore (or don't see) them?

[TinyTree]

I am curious as to what you mean by 'alchemy'. It seems the historic usage has meant 'transmuting one element into another' and you are using it in a way I am not familiar with.

are you using it to mean 'transformation of one thing into another thing'?

or perhaps 'transformation of one arrangment of atoms into another'?

I am interested in understanding where you are coming from. All those ideas are interesting and different.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by harmonygirl Michael, are you saying that that photosynthesis was part of a spiritual, artistic, philosophical process and we have separated it so that it is just chemistry? I wonder if we are really able to do that? I wonder if all of these other aspects are there already and we just ignore (or don't see) them?

No.Harmony.I am not saying that!What I am saying is,that
nature has been practising chemistry,far longer than man!


kind regards michael.

[harmonygirl]

Originally Posted by TinyTree I am curious as to what you mean by 'alchemy'. It seems the historic usage has meant 'transmuting one element into another' and you are using it in a way I am not familiar with. are you using it to mean 'transformation of one thing into another thing'? or perhaps 'transformation of one arrangment of atoms into another'? I am interested in understanding where you are coming from. All those ideas are interesting and different.

TinyTree, I don't know if you were talking to me or not, but I thought I'd explain my view (embryonic as it is!). I think that alchemy involved transformation, not just the elements but I found a site about the creation of an eternal flame, etc. Also, the more I learn about it, the more it drew together various disciplines that are separated now (perhaps artificially?) namely, science, art, religion and philosophy. I wonder if the search for the TOE needs to account for the artifiicial divisions that we place when we apprehend our environment and I also wonder if the various transformations that we have wrought are largely ineffective because they are only part of the equation...still searching...

[mkirkpatrick]

Thanks for your interest Tiny Tree,
I suppose when I talk of transformation in natures realm,I mean how plants
can "take" what they need from their surroundings,soil.air,water,sunlight,how
sunlight produces chlorophyll by photosynthesis,how plants and trees are able to synthesize an assortment of elements and by combining them into a
complex whole by synthesis.The idea I am trying to "inform" here is that nature has been practising chemistry for billions of years,and has managed
without the aid or input of man,and his intelligence?Chemistry and Alchemy
go hand in hand together,the science of transformation,has been "acquired"
by man from nature,the early alchemist,who was also a chemist,of sorts,
began to notice that plants had "powers" to purge,and heal!And so began a
journey of discovery,and the gradual unlocking of natures secrets.
more later.
kind regards michael.

[baudrunner]

On the subject of alchemy, it concerns the creation of gold from the other elements using laboratory apparatus and other elements with known properties of reaction with each another, for that is what dreamers wanted of the practice of chemistry. Alchemists were cranks, not scientists. Mother Nature is not a crank.

The closest that one can come to alchemy today is the creation of gold by way of the bombardment of the element Bismuth with protons. It is highly cost ineffective because it was estimated to cost about a quadrillion dollars to produce about a gram of gold that way back in the sixties and it was no more than an interesting diversion for the nuclear research physicists at the time. For all we know, they might still be trying to produce that gram of gold. That's alchemy for you.