[mkirkpatrick]

If I did not exist,then,I would be universal,this I is,ego,self,self aware,
It is written somewhere,that we have to lose,ourselves,in order to find
out who we really are.
I exist therefore I am,but what is this I,this little me has to grow up,
put on the clothes of an adult,and begin to move away from me-ism
and adopt our-ism,to loose the self centerness,and become more
open,and accomodating.more inclusive,in ideas,and thoughts.

when the last vestage of me is gone,then I will not exist,but will
Be,at one with all.and be universal.

would be grateful for comments,

kind regards.michael.

[David Maes]

Respons to Undef00...

Yep, you could be right... what we experience could be some kind of virtual reality... (like 'the matrix'... "Do you think that's real air you're breathing?" "Do you wanna know how deep the rabbithole goes?" ...)
Amagin that we have some kind of ghost which is connected to this huge program... called 'the universe'...
You could either say we ARE a program in it... or you could say our ghosts are somehow connected to it and influencing the program...
Yep, it could be virtual reality indeed...

I also believe that a simple ant or a fly knows it's here... I think when a human simply put his foot on an ant and kills it... I'm pretty sure it knows...
But this selfawareness COULD be a program... Maybe this fly just gives signification to everything it sees just like a human does... (humans of course or more intelligent...; but this indeed doesn't make us better than flies!!!)

(Also I believe a fly sees everything happen slower than humans, it has a little head and the information in its brain is less complex than the information in a human brain; I believe a fly sees everything 'in slow motion'. Of course a fly feels also the changes in the air of its environnement; but maybe you can't grab it because it has a different perception of time...
For example seestars; when you take a camera and you make a little movie of them, its like they almost don't move... But when you run the cameramovie much faster; it looks like they are creating there own territory...)

But... it's not only humans who terrorize animals...
Animals also terrorize animals... and we are one of those animals; we are apes with clothes.... but even when we don't realise; we are certainly still animals... We gained (by coincidence) an avantage by evolution...
We walk on two legs instead of four... and we started to grap thinks.
But the fact that we are walking on two legs was just a sexual aspect in evolution.

Of course animals do have to hunt other animals... or they would simply die.
They need food... They need air... They need the passage of atoms through them... to keep on living.

So I fully understand what you wanna say... Our lifes in general are a lot much easier than the life of an ant for example. But sometimes the life of a human can be really cruel to... What about concentrationcamps....

What I wanna say is, nature can be beautifull, but sometimes it can be really cruel to...

I don't see humans like ghosts, I more see them as artificial intelligence.
With billions of billions of connection in there brains... (I can be wrong of course, it's just my opinion)
Even with our science we still cannot MAKE a human ourselves with just atoms... Even not cells...
The way animals or humans are build is so unbelievable intelligent...
You almost might think you need a god to create them...

But on the other hand... sometimes nature is so cruel...
Nature creates virusses (which are so intelligent we can not make them ourselves (we have to clone or to use genetic manipulation or something like that...) So those virusses are beald in a very intelligent way you might almost think there is a god needed to create them...
But virusses are very cruel... they can destroy a human, or an animal....

So I don't understand... why is 'the force' so creative to make us, and on the other hand... why is he so creative to destroy us!!

Are we just toys????

[undef00]

i guess it is not virtual reality but just reality what for example humans do see, smell, etc. virtual reality (as for my definition) is something what you can enter and quit and enter again and quit again and so on ... and sure we are breathing real air ....

did i say what we experience is some kind of vr? i don't think so .. sure in the future humans may be capable of combining reality and virtual reality in one single expression . .

and i personally don't think that insect do have feelings of any kind - they just have reflex - if they would have feelings they just would have a n extremly hard life ... so i go with: ants do have easier lifes than humans ... but even if insects just have reflex does'nt necessary mean that they are dumb compared to humans - and you may further assume that it would be easier to kind of completely controll an insects "brain" compared to an elephant brain for example ...

!!!!AND PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHICH OTHER ANIMALS BESIDE HUMAN RACE DO TERRORIZE OTHER ANIMALS - SURE CATS AND DOGS MAYBE CAPABLE AND SOMETIMES DO THAT BUT AS I SAID EARLIER CATS AND DOGS ALREADY KIND OF ADVANCED WITH US :::!!! even if tiger kids do play around/hurting/killing a mouse that is NOT terror ... terror is for example caging an animal after catching it or getting it born in the laboratory and making cruel experiments until it dies ....

concentration camps: just don't dig in the past over and over again - as i said earlier somewhere else - don't infiltrate theories (includes dumb political strategies) into the human mind on a large scale - concentration camps can only happen if one sick man/woman on top has lots of sick people around him/her....

viruses aren't cruel on a large scale - sure its cruel for the individual which is exposed to a certain virus - but on the large scale viruses do help push evolution even further - human race does currently need diseases to obtain new feelings and to advance ....

you stated twice the expression "god" - do you believe in something like a god? and what is your age? just curious...

[David Maes]

To Michael Kirkpatrick...


You could be right of course... but it's still possible, that when you don't exist, you are not universal.

I mean, it could still be that when you're dead, than you're dead...

I only hope you're right...

[David Maes]

To undef00:


Of course we can always quit reality to...
The only question is: can we re-enter it??

Can you actually prove that, what we experience, is not vr?
I mean... prove it.

And do you think that a brain actually minimum has to be as big as a monkey's
brain to experience feelings??
Of course, the brain of an elephant is not the brain of an insect...
But I rather think that building parallel constructions out of fragments flowing around in their unconscousness is responsable for feelings...
Why would you think that this tiny little head of an ant wouldn't be able to make those...
I mean... maybe feelings are created by microscopic little nano- or even quantumcomputers in theire brains....
Can you actually MAKE an ant?? No... so if we can't make it; than how could we judge if an ant has feelings are not??

And I think that a hungry lion sometimes, before ripping it's pray apart and eating it, sometimes plays with it... I don't think it has to be a "zoo"-lion to do that??

But I agree; caging an animal in the zoo for life, just for tourists to look at them, is really horrible! Taking away their freedom...

And I hate what they do with cats which are lost... Sometimes humans just dump their dogs... These dogs are MURDERED just for not walking on our streets... I hate it!

And then terrorists and wars... always for money. It's almost logical that human will distroy itself...


And why shouldn't I dig in the past...
Concentrationcamps exist right now and they always will...
We can not forget them, because when we do, than it starts al over again...

Humans with lots of power are dangerous and can become really sadistic.
They just kill because they have power...

Do you actually believe that a human has to be "sick" to kill another human??
I think they sometimes just do it consciously!
(Of course I find them sick to; but I don't think they really are sick!!)
I think we sometimes believe they are sick just because we don't wonna shock ourselves knowing the're not.

Yes; we need virusses for the evolution... the only question is... will we keep on surviving them... because evolution only happens when you survive!!

Yes, I believe in 'a force'. I'm not a convinced christian, i'm not judish, i'm no boeddhist, i'm no moslim, I'm no part of any sekt, ... but I just believe in 'a force'...
Because we vanish, everything vanishes, but their will always be matter and energy, only it takes other forms; you can't destroy it.

And what about big bang theorie?? First their is totally nothing; then suddenly in this nothing their starts to exist a little ping pong ball of very hot energy... where does it come from?? How can there suddenly start to exist something out of nothing?? This is logically impossible.

My age is 47.

[Guille]

I'll post once on this threa,d because I have quite clear my opinion, and I actually sort of consider it knowledge, not believe.

Feeling is the experience of the senses of biological beings such as humans, sharks, roses and secuoyas.... by perception in contact with the real physical world. This means that it is requiered to live, in the biological meaning, in order to feel. In order to have this kind of life, a being must also exist, at least, int he physical world, for if not, no contact with the world would be possible, if it wasn't from the inside. Because languages are NOT completely logical, there are two main meanings for "to feel": the one jsut desctribed, which is done by senses, or the feel from feelings, which is the moral state of a person, like happiness, anger, revenge, lonelyness....etz. The feelings, in cotrast to feels (from senses), exist in the mind, not in the real physical world. For the mind to exist there is not physical existence requiered, or atleast we haven't prooved to opposite, but all the minds we know about have a brain on which to relly on, and a body. Anyway, for the mind, as we know it, to exist, it must live, the entity that has the mind must live. So actually, to have a mind, there must be physical existence. Now, for any possible meaning that the word "to feel" has in the question "how does it feel to NOT exist?", it is an absurdity to formulate. We must exist in order to feel. Feelings and feels, are both part of existence. So, it cannot "feel" to not exist. Now, someone may come and think that if we haven't NOT existested, we can't state what exist or doesn't exist in non-exisntence. We can't even say what exists or not exists in existence, and we ave experienced it. But, we have not-existed. Before existing, we existed in non-existence. But, as it is stated by the word, we did not exist, so, this means, we had no mind otr body. If we have no mind or body, we can't feel by perception or feel by though (feelings), so, we can't feel. So there is no such thing as feelings or feels in non-existence.

[David Maes]

To Guille

I believe you're right.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by David Maes To Guille I believe you're right.

Good, it's glad to see that I haven't gone to another paralell universe, in which everbody lacks of logic, and wonders about absurdities.

I believe that your believe about my believe is right.

[David Maes]

Guille, could I ask you a question...

Do you believe in 'the force'?

[Guille]

Originally Posted by David Maes Guille, could I ask you a question... Do you believe in 'the force'?

NO.

I just like the phrase "may the force be with you".

As you may have seen (if not, check it) in my thread "God" I am strong atheist (and that is nto only for god, but for "divine beings" such as the force).