Consciousness Explained

[nameless]

Hi Nameless,
Consciousness seemed mysterious but has now become "effable".

If so, the impossible (till now, of course) has been achieved. I doubt it, though, as I've said, the philosophy of 'materialism' has long been refuted.

I am also using the quantum realm in my explanation, so that is not ignored.

Copenhagen interpretation; "Consciousness is the Ground of All Being!"

It also plays a part in the sense of smell. Odorants' molecule shapes fit the nasal receptors, but that's only the first part of the story, since some molecules have the same shape (one atom different). It turns out that the same superposition of electrons and tunneling described earlier give the molecule a vibration pattern of electric current that finalizes the smell presented to consciousness.

Existing, momentarily, within Consciousness/Mind is "you", "your sense of smell", "odorants and their molecules", "noses and their receptors", "atoms", "electrons", "tunnels", "descriptions", "vibrations", "patterns", "electric currents", and everything else that exists in the universe in the moment.
Nothing that exists affects Consciousness. Nothing that exists, exists apart from Conscious awareness of existence (Mind) via Conscious Perspectives, us.

While pinanethiol [C 10 H 18 S] has a strong grapefruit odor, it near twin pinanol [C 10 H 18 O] smells of pine needles.

All stuff that exists via Consciousness/Mind. One existent thing is made of the same stuff as every other existent thing (and everything exists!), 'information waves'/mindstuff.

It's also seems, as you say, that consciousness can summon a particle into being.

'Consciousness' 'summons' everything into being.
Perceiver and perceived are ONE!
Conscious Mindstuff is Conscious Mindstuff... there is no 'material world' beyond your perceptions and concepts and mental constructs of it, appearing differently every moment.
As I said earlier, "The complete definition of the complete universe, at any moment, is the sum total of all Conscious Perspectives." A 'different' universe every moment!

Maybe it real-ized and actual-ized the entire universe into [real] being

as it does every moment, 'being' in 'our minds'.

and so, now, all is here as actual, everything else having evolved

And Now! And Now! and Now!...
'Actual', meaning?
'Evolution is only a 'realistic and logical theory' from a certain Perspective. 'Actually', nothing moves in spacetime, and all moments of ever existence, all those universes, exist simultaneously, a great synchronicity of moments, Now! All existence, ever, existing for one Planck moment. Every moment unique, and many Perspectives, Now! Nothing 'changes', nothing can change. Apperarances appear to change, but different perceptions of different universes with the inherent memories in place in the inherent brains in the inherent heads perceived by different and unique Perspectives. 'Evolution' is not an inherent part of the omniverse, but from certain Perspectives only. Linear and sequential ones, for one, but it's just a trick of the mind.

Altering Human Consciousness

Change the brain and consciousness changes too.
Take drugs and the emotions change as well.
Damage the brain and the mind’s damaged too.
Consciousness emerges only from the brain.

Everything is different every moment. Nothing changes. With the new moment, there is different context. Different context = different 'awarenesses'.
One moment i enjoy the Perspective of galaxies and another I enjoy the Perspective of a human idiot. From a certain Perspective, that could be seen as Consciousness 'changing', but, 'actually', 'Consciousness' cannot change. There are no features or qualities that can change. Every moment/universe is unique and unique to each and every Perspective.

Anyway, what do you think about the anesthesia effects and the quantum parts described in the initial post?

Interesting, but still attempting to take someone's 'actual' blood pressure, while in a dream, with a dream character's arm and heart, a dream BP cuff...
A universe being perceived by a Conscious Perspective, the context of which is that the perceiver (you) of the perceived universe that has you in it all doped up on whatever, will be 'narrower'. Perceived 'feelings' will be 'narrower'...
The momentary 'included angle' of Perspective can be very very great and Consciousness appears as 'expanded', or 'tiny', and the 'world' is much smaller (perhaps to just the wee smallest dot of light). And, of course, everything in between. Next moment might easily be a different 'included angle'. That's what many of the self-help disciplines are about, the attempt to 'arange' the context of existence to include a 'greater included angle', an 'expanded' Conscious Perspective, an expanded existence/moment.

(Consciousness can be so easily turned off.)

Conscious Perspective only 'lasts' a moment, anyway...
Consciousness cannot 'be' anything, nor is there anything to do something to Consciousness. Perfect symmetry...
Peace


First Law of Soul Dynamics; "For every Perspective, there is an equal and opposite Perspective!" -Book of Fudd (1:2)
(and the mutual arisal of opposite Perspectives is their immediate annihilation!)

[austintorn@aol.com]

Since everything in the "dream" is absolutely totally functional, unlike my night dreams in which my car's brakes never work, I'll assume that what makes no difference [from real] is no difference and that science can accomplish things like making the computers with which we post that they are a dream in which all is just for show like in a movie.

Also, since this thread has a scientific prefix, that is the gist of this content. You guys might want to have an "alternate" type consciousness thread.

So, consciousness can be turned off while doctors work on the patient who in every way functions as if s/he were real. So, anyway, we have a tautology in which the dream function never deviates one bit from what would act the same as if it were real.

Remove a critical part from my awake life car and it doesn't run. Since the concept of "all is a dream" subtracts nothing at all from real function, I'll just ignore it as doing nothing whatsoever.

[melanie]

Since the concept of "all is a dream" subtracts nothing at all from real function, I'll just ignore it as doing nothing whatsoever.

You got it in a nutshell.

It's all NOTHING.

Only nothing can come from Nothing.
Unless 'you' think otherwise.

[austintorn@aol.com]

Consciousness is no longer an enigma; seen it is seen to be a biological phenomenon. As for the brain, it develops through a process similar to natural selection. Neurons proliferate and form connections in infancy; then experience weeds out the useless from the useful, molding the adult brain in sync with its environment. One’s brain develops from one’s individual history. All brains are quite unique; they have enormous variation.

As the brain forms, neurons that fire together wire together. The selective system maintains the connections that are needed most, making a million billion connections.

What of consciousness? It is what is lost when you go into a deep dreamless sleep. When awake, consciousness is modulated or modified by attention, so it is not exhaustive. Consciousness allows you the ability to plan. Primary consciousness is only the extended present, such as you feeling your seat on a chair or hearing a voice; there is no narrative history of the past or future plans. Secondary or higher order consciousness is being conscious of being conscious, a narrative. We have true language of words and symbols to narrate with and can create all kinds of such streams. They appear on ToeQuest.

[nameless]

Consciousness is no longer an enigma

Perhaps to you it isn't, but to a vast majority of the brightest minds throughout history and the cutting edge present, it certainly is.
Your opinion is valid as such, your opinion, but few credible minds still argue that consciousness is a physical manifestation. It's old stuff, and refuted.
Your assertion seems a bit.. presumptuous. Many of your assumptions are long refuted (which you'd know if you had a good science education, and you wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel). I'm sure that an honest exploration and understamnding of 'current' science will take you in some very interesting directions, unless you need no more learning in science since you already 'know' the 'ultimate truth of Consciousness'.
Time will tell...
Good luck...

since this thread has a scientific prefix, that is the gist of this content. You guys might want to have an "alternate" type consciousness thread.

I'm not 'you guys', and everything that I offer here is scientifically and logically and experientially supported; up to the moment (Now!) and beyond!

"Truth is certainly 'stranger' than fiction!"

(I also notice that you showed no sign of reading or understanding what I offered in my previous post. You refuted nothing, you questioned nothing, asked no clarification and merely repeated your 'position'. I was just sharing an alternative Perspective, and, as the "complete definition of the universe is the sum total of all Perspectives, at the moment", I was offering an opportunity to 'expand' your's a bit.)

Enjoy your thread, see ya around.
Peace

[austintorn@aol.com]

Timeless, see you around, as all you said was "refuted" but supplied no proofs. If all is a dream, then Copenhagen would just be part of the dream and so couldn't be relied upon either. One cannot claim a dream and then use stuff from the dream. Besides, there are other interpretations of the quantum realm. Anyway, if it can make particles real, then there are real particles about.

I got some of the stuff posted from Stuart Hameroff and it is as new as science can get, having just come out this month. You probably have not read it yet.


Mikal,

The mind is not consciousness, but what surfaces on the mind from the brain is observed by Consciousness. Consciousness is only a subject and is near the end of a process. It is not a thing. How come it is not the end, but just near? Because it can be remember for use in the future.

However, the stroke victim's mind was indeed damaged by the damage to the brain, no doubt about it. It is also true that sometimes brains can recover, as in his case.



Mel,

Nothing can become of nothing, not even anything such as the felt sensations that you have.


In scientific threads, one must supply evidence of nothing or dreams. I didn't see any because that is the kind of things for which evidence is perhaps not conceivable.

How come the stuff in the dream operates on its own?

How does anything at all come from nothing.

Just saying so doesn't make it so.


Poems:

Intuition

Of conscious reasoning
It is not always,
For the brain
Still works silently
On the problem assigned.

Subconsciously,
Not for one to “know”,
One’s memories,
learnings,
And associations
Interplay,

Sifting through all the
Scenarios of consequences.

Then, after this analysis,
The answer pops out
Into consciousness,

Wherein, sometimes,
We must truly be surprised,
Having not been privy
To what occurred beneath.



— The Sixth Sense —

The brain interprets reality and puts
A face on the waves of sound, light, color, touch,
And a sense on molecules’ smell and taste.
Consciousness is the brain’s perception of itself.


— Screening Time —

Consciousness is referred back in time a bit,
Like the tape-delay of a live TV show,
To hide the brain’s processing time from us—
Making things seem to happen instantly.


— Survival of the Fittest —

Subconscious trains of thought vie for attention;
The dueling choirs compete for first place
In the mind’s ‘I’—consciousness—to produce
Future, for this may be the task of thought.


— Awareness Afterwards —

The brain, with its hundred billion nerve cells,
Does all of our decision-analysis,
Only making its results known, at the last,
To the mind’s highest level: consciousness.


— Mindless Acts —

People act, robot-like, since they know not
The “why” of what they do, for decisions
Are made “blind”, by brain networks, just before
They’re presented to us in consciousness.


— Veto? Or Next Thought? —

Consciousness comes three hundred milliseconds
After the brain does its analysis,
And thus has but last second veto power,
If allowed, over what the brain comes up with.


— The Illusion of Control —

Decisions are not made by consciousness,
Although, this fine picture in the mind’s ‘I’—
Merely the brain’s perception of itself—
May be fed back for further analysis.


— Unconscious Selection —

Not much of what the brain does reaches
Consciousness, and even when it does,
The mind’s last to know—it’s like a tourist,
For decisions precede their awareness.


— Machineful-ness —

Humans are like machines, going the way
Of their brains, genetics, and chemicals—
But, you, learning these secrets, rise above,
And at least know that you are a machine.

More another time.

[Mikal]

How could we determine whether reality is a dream or is real???

Well I'll tell you try walking out in front of a big, huge truck...end of test should reveal to you a body thats now in a heck of alot of pain you can feel and yeh that truck was a real, physical object which struck your real, physical body....I would not suggest anybody try this test but thinking about it surely reveals there is something wrong with the statement..."life is an illusion or life is a dream...."


Mikal

[austintorn@aol.com]

Maybe it was a dream truck that gave only a dream sensation of dream pain… if we wildly suppose a Dreamer Guy who makes up our soap operas on Earth as his TV channel.

The Poor Guy has nothing else to do so I guess HE needs some entertainment and a few good laughs.

[austintorn@aol.com]

Hi guys and gynos,

To the dreamers,

I have to say that once you go to everything being a dream, then nothing can be gotten out of dream hands of dream scientists using dream machinery in dream experiments, such as the dream Copenhagen quantum results. A dream world would be like a movie playing in which anything could happen.

Beyond the wild guess of “all is a dream” then there would have to be more guesses about whose brain was dreaming and providing the sensations, the plots and why, etc. Then where did It comes from and all that. The Guy would just be a middleman but would get treated like “the end”, “case closed”.


However, here’s a proposition for you that lets consciousness be part of a feedback loop in which it both creates and is created:

As “particles” in the quantum are neither here nor there, being everywhere and nowhere all at once (superposition), I am likewise using this third state of affairs (between nothing and something),to posit (make up) that all universes existed and evolved all at once in this kind of superposition that I will call “Possibility” or “Potential”. It was the wave function of Everything.

This short story is that when some creature evolved to reach consciousness in one of these possible universes, such as one of our forbearing mammal kind, the reality of all things was brought into actual existence from the possible realm, just like in some quantum physics experiments.

The reasoning that sent me down this avenue was that, while nothing can’t produce anything, neither could an actual something have been around forever, for not only what would have produced its amount, location, and nature of its design without ever having been designed in the first place, but also, how could a thing, which is chained to time, have been around for an eternity already—since infinities can never totally complete in this manner (or ever).

Thus, the identification of Possibility, which needs nothing before it, for that would only be the same as what it already is: possibility. Thus, consciousness evolved from the brain and atoms and all that, in the potential possible state, taking every ath, as we see in the quantum realm, then real-ized and actual-ized all things into real exisence.

What other way out is there between nothing doing anything and real things having always existed?


GG,

The ability to narrate a story to another sounds good as a definition.


Mikal,

While consciousness, the mind, and the subconscious are all of the brain (where else), I believe some very much wish to find a basis and separate some of them to be as the invisible undetectable “soul”.

The Unanswerable Quiz
Of All That Soul Is

Whoever can tell
What’s inside the shell
Of the soul and the brain,
Each not of the other’s reign…
Which, pray tell, does what?

In general,

Certainly drugs, injuries, and sleep affect consciousness and experiments show consciousness to not be the beginning of a process, but towards the end. One’s senses and past experiences and learnings (plus looking up stuff in Google) give rise to brain activity in higher and higher systems, like the visual, etc., and thoughts and emotions surface on the mind, which can’t hold but a few things at once, and this mind stuff is observed by consciousness. I’d say then while everyone’s consciousness is about the same, the contents are certainly unique to the individual. In the English language, ‘I’ has exactly the meaning of what your awareness is focusing on in consciousness, such as “I feel happy”, in which some brain states presented happiness to the mind from something that was experienced and noted through consciousness observing it when it got to that level.

[Mikal]

Yes and I suppose one could marvel at the ability of the dream truck to produce real red dreamy blood....gorry stuff but makes a point about absurdity in statements....and then of course one could say the arriving ambulance and the following surgury to save a life would be a dream too...wow, with such dreams, why have sleep and normal dreams if it is going on all day and all your life....duh!!!


Mikal