Consciousness, Transcendence & Integration

[Graybeard]

Wot Lake ........ Titicaca, Mungo ???

cool bananas .... greg

[leskey]

I'll let Bev decide if you should know that one...

Wot Lake ........ Titicaca, Mungo ???

cool bananas .... greg

[SteveA]

I put something on another thread that I thought might fit into some of the subjects here:

http://www.toequest.com/forum/mathem...tml#post125245

And another quite interesting idea that appeared to "click" (yes, this one has some rather complex mathematical ideas, but there's at least a potential summary at the bottom of it ):

http://www.toequest.com/forum/mathem...tml#post125251

[leskey]

I put something on another thread that I thought might fit into some of the subjects here:

http://www.toequest.com/forum/mathem...tml#post125245

And another quite interesting idea that appeared to "click" (yes, this one has some rather complex mathematical ideas, but there's at least a potential summary at the bottom of it ):

http://www.toequest.com/forum/mathem...tml#post125251

In response, you might find this of interest, Steve: http://www.toequest.com/forum/your-t...tml#post125256

[SteveA]

As usual, you tend to hit on lots of great subjects and appear to track my thoughts rather well at the same time Nice sharpshooting.

Consider two types of change - controlled (directed/enclosed/known/determined/coherent) and uncontrolled (uncontrolled exposure/growth/"random").

In a sense, entirely controlled change as growth is impossible in time and an unknown (not necessarily incoherent or absolutely random, just something that was not visible within some context previously - it has to be learned/acquired/adapted to etc. within some context) must exist in order for change to be possible. In order to witness it as change, it must occur relative to something that is not changed (specifically which changed can be an unknown and cause inverse forms of space - one in which something external changed and the other in which something internal changed as was reflected in a relative manner with external properties).

There is inherently no resistance or conflict to change outside whatever limits are imposed by desires - and there could be the clue right there - desires are the landscape or evaluation function. A common technique in artificial intelligence is to use "hill climbing" to find something that could at least be a "locally optimal" solution and this could be analogized with the flow of a fluid across a terrain, encountering various features.



The problem with simple hill climbing is that it can quickly converge to a single solution that is not necessarily ideal. You can add the equivalent of "noise" or excite this to have the search broaden and this motion could appear similar phase transitions in matter, where the fluid becomes a gas instead or with large jumps, the equivalent of quantum tunneling could occur (this can be used if some solution is "stuck" - you simply make a large jump to some nearby area). If you want to combine multiple disconnected features, genetic algorithms work well.

The landscape itself doesn't determine when a solution is reached, unless it was a finite space and every possible combination was covered, in which case that would be a scenario effectively defined as optimal by the space itself, though an infinite space constructed by all possible motions would not have any specific solution unless some finite limit was placed, such as, for example, having a finite observer determine the (current) stopping point .

So I could only assume that such an algorithm applied to everything would be the optimal placement of all things (which could include nested infinite spaces effectively performing the same operation on smaller spaces within it). This could give a structure similar to a tree sorting algorithm where various branches are swapped (wheels within wheels on different scales).

The four forces are only different aspects of the binary pair: conductivity and resistance.

Your comment here reminded me of an idea. It can actually all be conductance - the direction in which something is conducted though can make it appear as a resistance. (If this resistance is fundamentally a landscape of emotions/desires, then these could be representative of that direction of "flow" of "time")

So imagine a monopole source and a single pathway of conductance. For example, a battery could potentially have only a single infinite source at one terminal that is always emitting a flow of monopoles/quanta and the alternate terminal is one end (the "physical" end) of a detector pair (the other "terminal could be a distributed background sink for time" - for example, a property of space or a radiation away from the detecting terminal)

Whether or not a measurable flow in a circuit is measured could then arise from a relative measurement between the ratio of this flow that is passed through an ammeter, versus the (spacetime coherent) component that is conducted into a "background field" that is detected as a passage of time. (In that case physical time could be slowed, sped up or potentially even reversed depending upon which direction or pathway this flow passed through)

A battery could then appear to lose its charge by continual alterations made to the molecules conducting this flow (in the analogy of a fluid on a landscape - once a depression is filled, no more fluid flows into it).

In this case there need only be (a linear) conductance (a single source of time or energy), though it could multiplexed through many independent/individual channels and what we measure as, for example, an electrical resistance could be a relative diversion away from a point of this flow into a space that is not physically measured.

Notice that we could physically observe a spacial void and still possess an internal sense of time which we could assume was due to activity internal in the body. We could also similarly imagine having external events accelerated rapidly and the mind being sluggish to where external events appeared acceleration relative to an internal sense of time (for example, when waking up, the world has undergone a lot of changes in a consciously short period of time).

This could result from that source being divied between those two spaces. One as externally observable time/change in space and the other as internal changes.

[SteveA]

Resistance must facilitate coherency. In the time and motion equation, 'pockets of resistance' are the strength required to build sound functional 'structure.' If it weren't for resistance there is only the status quo: unchanging timelessness - which we perceive as 'nothingness.'

Notice that these could be fundamentally driven by desires - someone may not want a timeless changeless state, hence change, which to some extent would appear to be uncontrollable, hence would implicitly include a growth.

In order for this flow to occur within any form of space, references for that space must exist and these can only be acquired by accessing a dimension or property beyond it, and that increases the potential volume of that space as well as increases the (subjective) information content of each unit of flow. Basically, space can be infinite and the selection of a single position in space would also be an infinite quantity of information. This quantity of information would not be perceived within references/perceptions to witness it within that context, hence perceptions would similarly need to be able to convey an infinite quantity of information in order to localize a specific quanta within an infinite space.

If the fundamentally conserved unit in physics is just a unit of subjective time (only one thing happens at a time), then the manner in which rates of information or quantities of energy etc. arise is from having that single event in time occur within expanded contexts such that the available information regarding where the event occured is seen in greater detail, though this information could be placed into a wide variety of perceptual contexts (it would just be the overall detail and diversity of experiences present).

Sorry for all my drifting thoughts here. I'm just rambling a bit in order to try to convey a bit of how I see things fitting together.

The material universe provides the connectivity of the finite within the infinite - all recorded in memory/time:

• Spirit is the one and only electrical force 'possessing' all matter;
• Soul is the thread of individual identity within collective memory and
• Consciousness is the capacity to develop (or not) discretionary selectivity or wisdom, which is indelibly recorded as individual idenity.

I think space (or more fundamentally a void, not nothing) that is similar to this and "already optimized" positions act as a super fluid that simply observes and provides no resistance to what things are. That's why space appears to contain nothing and why thoughts occur within a void - space and that void are not empty but filled with everything else. A motion in space influences everything else in the universe and is felt/seen/sensed but everything else. The ability for this motion to be possible arises from intelligence coordination. It's an optimal synergy of individual and collective capabilities. Every individual is unconstrained and connected in a self determined optimal manner to everything else within the capabilities of that space that maximizes both individual and collective abilities to the limit of resources and abilities to coordinate those.

Though this optimized state does not itself change except via. inclusion and so continual inclusion occurs to "powers" time. That's the tradeoff - things have to jostle on occassion to adapt to changes, but this is where intelligence is valuable and the mind can potentially operate in a dynamic and superconducting state (yes, a "fluid" mind) in order to coordinate things efficiently on large scales with little conflict.

In this sense, time can be diverted from influencing physical events and operate within that "background field" in order to optimize those physical actions, though this can then place the conflict in time/change as mental phenomenon, but if emotions across the board are aligned, there is no conflict and all actions towards desires are maximized, so the key component to non-resisted "motion" is in finding an alignment for all desires that agrees upon the actions and individual ego(s) has(have) to be included in this as well, otherwise there is no change/growth as the only non-resisted motion is a completely unanimous one - it's one line, every point has to agree, a single no vote and we sit still and have to wait for the problems to be resolved ... but the picture's best that way, IMO ... it's taking the long way around, and it starts off slow, but it's got the best scenery around is capable of doing most everything (ok, not everything, but all the things that matter) and the only way to do that is with a train that's powered by unanimous agreement (not majority votes or other forms of tyranny over individuals and diversity ... those just go in circles and crash into themselves ... though I guess it would be easy to fit such a self constrained space on board as well ... they take up very little room ) and I'm perfectly willing to sit here until there's a nice large load and a gameplan that spans the collective limits of dreams and imagination among a group willing to hammer out disagreements on the way, because this train doesn't go anywhere without a unanimously satisfactory direction and it waits for stragglers as well ... because in the end there are no stragglers and they can be some of the most beautiful things around and the gains accomplished by this grow faster than exponential ... you really want to grab the largest problem imagineable and pack on every last dream and dusty but beautiful scrap from a photobook because they're all worth more than their weight in gold, and a gameplan on how to pick up more along the way can be part of it (though that can require some bumps and jostling around without a good strategy).

Find the beauty in life and hold on tight to those dreams - the place is held together by emotions. There's nothing else as valuable. There is no value without them and only individuals know what those values are and sharing them is the beauty in everything - learning how it all fits together and seeing it happen and grow.

If there's a better gameplan around, I can't think of one except to work on the next chapter during the interim.

I admit I don't think I'm speaking specifically for myself ... there are quite a few things involved in this and the picture is a very large one. It's obvious now that there have been pressures all through life, though as more subconsious influences and preferences that I didn't understand before and only recently have a lot of those isolated pieces begun to click together and it's definitely a prettier picture than I could have ever come up with myself, but something I'm glad I did was stick with it and work through life to get to this point and it's a pleasure seeing some of the nagging emotions etc. had larger purposes. It's also been amazing how many convoluted and diverse directions of events that appeared unrelated have come together over time in unexpected ways ... and there's still more to figure out. In a sense, it's still barely beginning and that practically blows my mind (in a perfectly enjoyable and healthy manner).

I'm very happy to have found some of that inspiration on this site! Thank you guys!

[leskey]

As usual there's much to ponder in your posts...thank you too, Steve.

On the topic of dreams...sometimes, just daring to dream is "The Hardest Part"...

I was listening to Coldplay in the car as I drove back to Brisbane from the Gold Coast last night and this song stuck with me...I subsequently unearthed this strange little video clip - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJBzQk2_eLg - hope you enjoy it as much as I have .

[labelwench]

That was an astounding bit of video, Leskey. I'm going to forward it to my mother as a bit of inspiration to go with her morning coffee. It was fascinating to glimpse the expressions on the audience as this performance so obviously runs contrary to the stereotype of aging and maturity which seems to push the elderly aside, tucked away in a 'safe' place and heaven forbid, don't show us your body.......

The only wobble I detected was right at the end, as she walked forward, but who wouldn't be a bit dizzy after that many spins?

Plenty of frontiers yet to explore. Loved it!

[Mikal]

As usual there's much to ponder in your posts...thank you too, Steve.

On the topic of dreams...sometimes, just daring to dream is "The Hardest Part"...

I was listening to Coldplay in the car as I drove back to Brisbane from the Gold Coast last night and this song stuck with me...I subsequently unearthed this strange little video clip - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJBzQk2_eLg - hope you enjoy it as much as I have .

Hey Lesk.....am doing the 'Australia chortel....heh...heh...Is this for my birthday??? She's got 20 odd years on me so as the old doll here turns the 'time-crank' (it did not need oil....good sign eh...lol) to 62....I did reverse psychology and I am now 26!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sugarbear....I am in Hay Bay....God's country because of the tall pines and immence lakes.....returning soon!!

Regards Mikal

[labelwench]

Hey Lesk.....am doing the 'Australia chortel....heh...heh...Is this for my birthday??? She's got 20 odd years on me so as the old doll here turns the 'time-crank' (it did not need oil....good sign eh...lol) to 62....I did reverse psychology and I am now 26!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sugarbear....I am in Hay Bay....God's country because of the tall pines and immence lakes.....returning soon!!

Regards Mikal

Many happy returns to you then Mikal and I like the way you're thinking, lol..... Surely one of the advantages gained through the accumulation of life experience is that we learn how to conserve energy by doing things more efficiently.

Not unlike the equations related to simple mechanisms that increase mechanical advantage (pulleys, leverage etc.) we also become adept at advancing several endeavors simultaneously.

Experienced enough to know better lol, and quite capable of doing all the best parts again.....(and again and again...... )

May this day, and all days, grant you the pleasure of new discoveries.