Consciousness, Transcendence & Integration

[MJA]

Thanks MJ...Its fine that you have stereotyped yourself with the infinite universe, you would never have gotten this stereotype from the collective...

Why did I say mind versus consciousness? Because it is self-evident in numerous diciplines of thought that at the root the two would be equal (unity and oneness) however the system itself seems to flow out in a tripartite structure that reveals mind has functions but so does consciousness. Strange indeed but seemingly the way nature designed it to be....

I guess that I do not want to quibble over different words...because it seems the whole cantains all its own parts...again strange but seemingly designed that way....

Thanks MJ...I will remember to be focused on the words....


Mikal

Just a suggestion, but rather than focus on the word, for surely there is no absolute certainty in a word, (for proof only look up a word in the dictionary to see its multiple meanings) I think it best to study nature, she is absolutely true.
Michelangelo sent me that Way many moons ago and boy besides beautiful art he was beautifully and absolutely right.

=
MJA

[Mikal]

Hi MJ...my dictionary has been my constant companion for the last 25 years...Before that I was not aware that words were of such deep and wide dimensions....

Yes I also admire Michelangelo...his art is surely expression of his own genius of intelligence....


Mikal

[Mohan.C]

First of all Mo...I would also like to extend special thanks to Michael for his post. I would like this thread to hold varying perspectives for we understand one another, through one another's way and personal experience with life...

Why is there a tide in the first place? Because man has been evolving and transcending the human libido since the beginning. Its the part of the psyche which is thought to be the emanations of what was called the Divine mind as creation is unfolded.

The divine mind aside, Mikal. How do you think the cultural evolution of man would have helped in creating such a psyche. Can you imagine any kind of situation which may have led to the creation of such a psyche.

You don't need to answer it if you think the discussion is not related to the thread.

Why is it that society follows the tide? To understand this we have to get into the semantics of the word culture and enculturation. Society as a collective exists before you so you must be drawn into it. Now this is only logical because in all reality you are under your families' influence for the first 7 years and that is even less now for those who must be drawn into the collective. Lets understand enculturation as the collective helping to shape and mold your inner sense of self. A healthy collective would have a better chance to carry that out than what sociologist Mills called a sick society.

Lets understand "to culture' as the encouragement of simultaneous teaching and learning, going on between you and another, that teaching and learning would be the encouragement to lead you to think from your own mind, to form strong decisional principles for your own life and to exemplify to you that reality is never a fixed idea but is always changing.

When I was a kid, anyone who told me stories or anywhere I read any stories, the last line was always "And the moral of the story is: ...". Today when someone tells me to do what I feel right, it's not actually what I feel right, its the "moral of the story".
That's true isn't it. I think its true for everyone.
Knowledge is imparted to us from sources 'unknown' to us. And that knowledge is only part of what was intended because some part is lost in 'not understanding' and 'misunderstanding'. Do you think this could be the reason why there is a 'tide'. Where there was intended a collective aspect of unique water droplets forming a tide. its just 'the tide'.

I personally feel responsible to tell you about the stages of the journey because if evolution is writ large in your life, as it was mine, I would wish nobody my journey for it came upon my life suddenly, I began it with ignorance and also innocense. If I had to do it again I would wish for like the ancients a "high priest" to guide me as I met my troubled inner self and warring parts....


Mikal

Is that 'concern', Mikal...
Don't you think 'concern' could be the reason for the establishment of 'values', 'morals', 'teachers' and 'leaders'. However distorted it may have become?

Am I making sense at all? If I'm not please continue with the topic of your thread!

[Mikal]

Yes lets put the divine mind aside because we do not know what God or the beginning was.

The cultural evolution of man seems to be going on in cycles of time that represent the epochs and eras of the generations involved. The cultural evolution has created a psyche stuck in survival to the point that man's consciousness and unconsciousness is split. That is moreso in the west than the east.
Although religion was a part of the Pisces age and man learning through religion, it did not allow man the privledge of owning his own mind, thinking for himself and taking responsibility for his own spiritual growth and tribulation.

Whats feels right to you may not feel right to another. Thats complex but surely an indication that struggling within ourselves with moral questions and decisions may be what bears us to the fruit of our own character.
Could we suppose that there is a tide because like us the world also follows a course to change and grow. The struggle to understand is one of the strongest urges I have within me...

Concern...hmmmm...maybe our values are based on our personal needs where mine would be different than yours. Is the distortion we face as societies' our leaders and teachers souless and the blind leading the blind???

You are making tremendous sense...


Mikal

[austintorn@aol.com]

Hi Mikala-Angela,

Good thread being sculptured here, Mikal.

While we are all unique in the history of the universe in the specific sense, could it be that some of the general archetypes were placed therein us by natural selection, the means of evolution? Are we, then, what we ever became?

For survival purposes back in the wild, the ‘rightness’ was right if it granted a survival advantage, but natural selection ‘knew’ nothing of right-doing in the fields beyond that.


Good to see you, Mohan-no-Divino.

[Mikal]

Hi Austin...thank you for bringing your perspective.

Yes archetypes are interesting and it would be interesting to determine if they have a connect to evolution or a connect to how the mind and consciousness builds its triparte model of psyche. I suppose we could try to impart some deep thought and discussion into that and see where it goes...

Survival is another interesting aspect because of course if you look at the structure of the brain, its the foundation upon which nature kept building all the other different neural structures or brains within us...and why did we not begin to use the higher parts of the brain (the prefrontal lobes) until just the last 30 or 35 years as neuroscientists are remarking...
This too could produce some interesting discussion....


Mikal

[mkirkpatrick]

I love the way you have used the words here.
You say "A small stream 'within' a mighty ocean" by which I think you are saying, both ocean and stream are of the same things.
And by saying 'within' I think you mean, the stream is actually indistinguishable from the ocean.
And then you say "Self-awareness seems to be the bridge which allows
the flow from the stream to the ocean and vice versa."
Let me try to understand that, and please correct me if I am wrong.
I am using 'drop' here instead of 'stream' as it makes it more easier for me to understand. You are saying we are a 'drop' in the 'mighty ocean' and self-awareness is what makes the drop be a part of the ocean.
May be I have misinterpreted your words. If so, please forgive me!

Thanks, that was a great post.

My dear friend Mohan,what clarity you have brought to
my somewhat muddy post,I thank you young man.
We are indeed drops within an infinite ocean.

warmest regards michael.

[austintorn@aol.com]

the prefrontal lobes

I don’t know when frontal lobotomies began, but those operated on, aside from perhaps being a little ‘off’ to begin with, lost whatever planning abilities there were in the lobes, compared to other people, so maybe the use of the lobes was in happening before then.

Hope our lobes continue to get used more and more, for it is the lack of planning, that is, consequences foreseen, that gets many impulsive kids into trouble. They ought to dwell on these instances in schools. We could drop some parts of math teaching that never get used. (Hi Antonio. There would be the option of taking higher, complicated math classes for the scientifically inclined. Also, can you dumb down your posts for us?)

The effects of natural selection on us are covered in many other threads on TQ.


Thanks for 'dropping' in, Mohan of the Indian ocean.

[Mikal]

Hi Austin...sorry I did not get back to you but the moment caught me craving for an icecream cone so off I went...smiles...

I have been following studies which are revealing that young people from 15 to 21 are supposed to be undergoing a peak growth period in the pre-frontal lobe.

I found this statement by cultural historian Joseph Pearce interesting...

"That all of our responses to shame are replicated and significantly intensified during adolescence is a major subject of discussion in itself. Suffice it to say that with the development of a new body, the extensive brain growth spurts and the onslaught of sexuality with its attendent massive shame-inducing restraint, this time in life provides multiple opportunities for the sentence of guilt to be pronounced again and again on us, making us fit subjects of culture, fit vehicles for violence and appropriate consumers of massive cultural counterfeits."

Now that impressed me because as I studied I was also in the educational environment of this age group. I saw so much that gave credence to that statement and of course drew insights into the struggles of young people...

I could not help but wonder what does that do to the brain and just by consequence do to, the psyche and consciousness....


Mikal

[austintorn@aol.com]

The young people, now, Newsweek claims, this week, partly out of affluence and of course of enabling to be princes and princesses, are 5 times more having 'narcissistic disorder', but then, as ever, life comes as a wall to crash them down with problems, bad marriages, etc., even all the more due to the economy falling.

Lobes need to evolve, but not all such things are so speedy.

My brother, a high school teacher, says that most teenagers seem as brain-damaged.

Any ice cream left?