Consciousness, Transcendence & Integration

[Mikal]

Naw...no ice cream left sorry...

Now why do young people seem like they are brain damaged?? As a society, why are our children and teens committing suicide??

Well lets see, in all reality we spend 18 or 19 years with family. The rest of our lives we basically are immersed in society. Society has to accept you as it draws you into it itself. Has this generation been accepted?

A huge majority experienced their own society as labelling them defective, punishing them for that, imprisoning them before they ever had time to grow up and in that huge process actually destroyed their reputation which essentially holds you up in society...

Add to this the weakening of the family structure, divorce, numerous parents, the need for both parents to work, latch-key kids, junk food diets, genetically modified food, affects from vaccinations....

wow what a screwup...and alot of it the consequence of social engineering...can we say we are in a mess?? These kids are the most innocent among us and it is almost as if they have been betrayed.....just my thoughts on the matter....


Mikal

[leskey]

...Add to this the weakening of the family structure, divorce, numerous parents, the need for both parents to work, latch-key kids, junk food diets, genetically modified food, affects from vaccinations....

wow what a screwup...and alot of it the consequence of social engineering...can we say we are in a mess?? These kids are the most innocent among us and it is almost as if they have been betrayed.....just my thoughts on the matter....

Yet, hope springs eternal...in this car crash of dysfunctionalism something sparkles in the sunlight.

Many children today are taught to believe that they're "princes and princesses." The primary influences are the pandering to material excess combined with a lack of genuine parenting. Guilt-ridden, time-strapped and exhausted parents lead them to believe they're special in a cut-throat world that promises them nothing.

Each generation needs to take responsibility for its legacy: the parents having made choices and played their role in carving out the world into which the children are introduced. Despite the individual circumstances, it's up to the parents to instill the virtues that will equip children to act out of obligation and responsiblity, rather than expectation and dependency...then, children have the innate ability to accept many things as they find them and lead productive and satisfying lives.

[greenbug]

This world isn’t what others tell us it is. If it is or has rules should they be a Gods or mans? Either way children realize life isn’t what they make of it, it already has laws and rules. People telling them what they can or cant do. So are they really free? Death is the only freedom we have.

So concerned about ego and free will, what and how we treat others. Should we give up our individuality for God or man? In the depth of our consciousness we are alone, with our thoughts, experiences, memories. But when we awake we find ourselves in the midst of a prison. It doesn’t matter what every one else is doing we are lost. Working together might give us a sense of oneness but it will never make us one. To be one but not, from there I can see a matter of frustration... An unrest that will never end.

[austintorn@aol.com]

In the depth of our consciousness we are alone, with our thoughts, experiences, memories.

— The Prison —

I can never share a mind directly,
For there is no access; we are alone.
Mind melding works only for the Vulcans.
This loneliness leads us to company.


— Loneliness —

The unbearable solitude of consciousness
Is relieved by literature, social clubs,
Movies, caring, friendships, discussion, writing,
And other sharing acts, but, mostly, by love.

If it is or has rules should they be a Gods or mans?

The Origin of Man is seen to be very different from that which religions say that God said. This is why Natural Selection needs to be understood. It is even partly responsible for belief in ghosts, spirits and even God. It didn’t know the TOE; it only knew survival. Such it is that the way things are hardly matches what 'ought to be'.


Princes and Princesses

5 figure sweet 16 parties, Princess parties, brand new cars for graduation, designer clothes, etc. = selfishness growing

[Mikal]

Yet, hope springs eternal...in this car crash of dysfunctionalism something sparkles in the sunlight.

Many children today are taught to believe that they're "princes and princesses." The primary influences are the pandering to material excess combined with a lack of genuine parenting. Guilt-ridden, time-strapped and exhausted parents lead them to believe they're special in a cut-throat world that promises them nothing.

Each generation needs to take responsibility for its legacy: the parents having made choices and played their role in carving out the world into which the children are introduced. Despite the individual circumstances, it's up to the parents to instill the virtues that will equip children to act out of obligation and responsiblity, rather than expectation and dependency...then, children have the innate ability to accept many things as they find them and lead productive and satisfying lives.

Hi Lesk....I feel hope is a greater understanding of this "car crash of dysfunctionalism." It is like it took on a life of its own and collectively we bear it and the media genre has greatly profited by using the idea of dysfunctionalism to drive us into dissention with each other and to freeze us into the straits of judgment of one another...to judge is conditioned into us because judgment is a human invention. We seem to have missed the point that this is a real world, with real people, growing, making mistakes and evolving. As a collective mind we are the mistakes made but as individual consciousness we are the learning and the balancing act trying to clean up the mess in our own inner space of self-validation.

There is great pandering to material excess...however, greater manipulators beyond us worked hard to create that environment of material excess for everyone to pander in...again it is only consciously we can examine that environment that is pandered in.

Expanding the icons of hollywood gives young kids artificial hero's to look up to. They cannot know that is the artificial unless we tell them and through our own internal integrity engage more honestly with them to instill deeper virtues that will last with them to bear themselves through their own ups, downs, stumbles, bruises and falls...

Thanks Lesk...I always enjoy what you impart to any discussion...


Mikal

[Mikal]

This world isn’t what others tell us it is. If it is or has rules should they be a Gods or mans? Either way children realize life isn’t what they make of it, it already has laws and rules. People telling them what they can or cant do. So are they really free? Death is the only freedom we have.

So concerned about ego and free will, what and how we treat others. Should we give up our individuality for God or man? In the depth of our consciousness we are alone, with our thoughts, experiences, memories. But when we awake we find ourselves in the midst of a prison. It doesn’t matter what every one else is doing we are lost. Working together might give us a sense of oneness but it will never make us one. To be one but not, from there I can see a matter of frustration... An unrest that will never end.

Hi GB....thanks for sharing your thoughts. I feel human liberation is outside of us and becomes almost like a living thing and then I feel freedom is within...

This is my most prized quote on freedom....I consider it food for thought....

"Imagine a bird soaring high above, feeling one kind of freedom. To experience life fully, it must land and go through the arduous task of building a nest. Through this discipline comes another kind of freedom, to experience the depths of its life." (D. Millman)

Can you see yourself in that....I can...smiles...


Mikal

[Mikal]

— Loneliness —

The unbearable solitude of consciousness
Is relieved by literature, social clubs,
Movies, caring, friendships, discussion, writing,
And other sharing acts, but, mostly, by love. ........by Austin...

Hi Austin....I think the mind is loneliness and it might be the prison...

However, consciousness being highly creative...is the creator of the literature, the organizer and planner of the social club, the actor which makes the movie real, the effort that extends caring, the willingness to forge friendships, the engagement in discussion, the deeper feelings that mold great writings and love....we cannot give away something we do not possess ourselves....there should be first self-love and this is not selfishness but a higher inner regard for yourself which is then extended graciously to all others....if I make every effort to live from my whole being then I can extend to you peace...that too is love!!!

As usual thank you for the poem....


Mikal

[Mikal]

Lets do a litmus test of identity. I will do mine here...you get a piece of paper and try to unpeel yourself like taking off onion skins...

Michael Turner gave me insights into this...thanks Michael!!!

I was first the child of a mother and a father. Thats a trinity of 3. Does anyone find it strange that humanity has always created a Godhead or viewed a creator as a trinity? Is the equation of child, mother and father the image of creation itself?? Creation creating itself?

Beyond being a child, I was a part of a sibling process where I had my unique position and vantage point. I was the middle child...not at the pressure of the lead nor at the innocence of the end but more in the place which watches both ends and absorbs it all....I got less attention but that aided in becoming an independent thinker...

So I was a child, a part of a sibling process, then came young friendships, then my educational experience so then a student, a long experience. Then a person in the workforce which was everything from being a hard working cleaner to the complexity of being an Operating Room Technician, now I become a wife, then a mother, sparetime in the absence of my children I become a researcher, I study all principles of thought, mothering over I became a divorcee, I returned to education seeking more a profession, again a student, then a child and youth councillor but at this point found I had lived through enough life experience that I could not be the role but had to be the person in the role. Opps cannot conform to the mandates...in trouble here, will have to work in the system but covertly against the tide of the system.
In the morass of experiencing all these identities I got lost as to who I really am. Is that when the drive to individuate surfaces almost as if life has its own intelligence to spot our vulnerability and our weakest moments...???


Just some thoughts to ponder.....


Mikal

[Mohan.C]

Yes lets put the divine mind aside because we do not know what God or the beginning was.

The cultural evolution of man seems to be going on in cycles of time that represent the epochs and eras of the generations involved. The cultural evolution has created a psyche stuck in survival to the point that man's consciousness and unconsciousness is split. That is moreso in the west than the east.
Although religion was a part of the Pisces age and man learning through religion, it did not allow man the privledge of owning his own mind, thinking for himself and taking responsibility for his own spiritual growth and tribulation.

Religion was created by humans. Probably men who had attained a certain state of 'enlightenment' or awareness, men who could answer more questions than the others around them. They may have attained this stage by going through many hard-ships or through severe penance or whatever. Naturally, they would have attracted a certain group of people who wanted to gain their knowledge. And that forms a 'religion'.
These men may not have wanted their followers to go thro' the same hard ships because they 'loved them' or 'cared for them' in which case they obviously would have said, 'follow me, I'll show you the path to righteousness!'

Or they may have let their disciples 'own their own minds', In which case the disciples would have found the truth by surviving many down-falls.

Whats feels right to you may not feel right to another. Thats complex but surely an indication that struggling within ourselves with moral questions and decisions may be what bears us to the fruit of our own character.

The way every person has faced his life affects the way he makes his decisions.

Could we suppose that there is a tide because like us the world also follows a course to change and grow.

The tide is because the world follows a course to feel secure. The people who change and grow create the tide. People who follow just want to be a part of it.

Concern...hmmmm...maybe our values are based on our personal needs where mine would be different than yours.

You said "I personally feel responsible to tell you about the stages of the journey because if evolution is writ large in your life, as it was mine, I would wish nobody my journey for it came upon my life suddenly, I began it with ignorance and also innocence. If I had to do it again I would wish for like the ancients a "high priest" to guide me as I met my troubled inner self and warring parts...."

Why do you think it is your responsibility? I am just trying to understand. I am not asking it to judge you or anything

Is the distortion we face as societies' our leaders and teachers souless and the blind leading the blind???

They were also led blindly, all they know is to walk with their eyes closed. And all they can teach us is to walk with our eyes closed.

You are making tremendous sense...


Mikal

Thanks

[melanie]

Hi Mikal, congratulations on the new thread, i do enjoy reading your threads, looks like this is going to be a very popular one

Anyway, have been looking around for some interesting stuff related to your topic.

I found this book ..... ''The Perennial Quest for a Psychology with a Soul By Joseph Vrinte''

There's some extremely interesting and very absorbing metaphysical reading to be digested in this book for anyone interested.

http://books.google.com/books?id=x00...ad=3_2#PPP1,M1

Also found this little gem....

Flatland

"Wilber uses the term flatland to describe what happens when one or more of the quadrants is ignored or undervalued. Science describes our external world. Science is a world view that measures our 'reality'. Whatever can't be measured in some way is deemed to be unreal or valueless. Values, feelings and intuition have no part in the scientific world. Scientists have created a flat land where the whole left side of the four quadrants have been flattened into the right. the more science does this (thesis) the more there is a reaction from people not prepared to live in such a polluted flatland (antithesis).
We can also create a flat land when we cut ourselves off from higher levels of development. A tribal society generally makes a sharp distinction between those who are in the group and those who are outside the group. They create a flatland by denying equal status to outsiders. There are usually strict rules governing enforcing co-operation within the group such as a ban on violence to members but an encouragement of violence towards outsiders, especially if they may be a threat. They have created a flat land by ignoring the common humanity we share."

http://www.geocities.com/piers_clement/victor.html

Anyway that's my 2 sense ..
Every little helps as they say

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