Consciousness, Transcendence & Integration

[greenbug]

A comment on flatland..
I have had a hard time growing up with feelings, my brother also. I found out that feelings are a bundle of thoughts that cant call upon memories as fast as needed to react. A calm mind is needed to sort the feelings and find every point that the feeling is linked to. Intuition is similar. Our brains have found interesting ways of thinking or reacting to a stimulus faster then an enemy threw emotions. Although the object of science is to measure ‘reality’ we must take our time to understand every one and every emotion. A hasty answer may not be the right one.

[Mikal]

Religion was created by humans. Probably men who had attained a certain state of 'enlightenment' or awareness, men who could answer more questions than the others around them. They may have attained this stage by going through many hard-ships or through severe penance or whatever. Naturally, they would have attracted a certain group of people who wanted to gain their knowledge. And that forms a 'religion'.
These men may not have wanted their followers to go thro' the same hard ships because they 'loved them' or 'cared for them' in which case they obviously would have said, 'follow me, I'll show you the path to righteousness!'

Or they may have let their disciples 'own their own minds', In which case the disciples would have found the truth by surviving many down-falls.


The way every person has faced his life affects the way he makes his decisions.

The tide is because the world follows a course to feel secure. The people who change and grow create the tide. People who follow just want to be a part of it.


You said "I personally feel responsible to tell you about the stages of the journey because if evolution is writ large in your life, as it was mine, I would wish nobody my journey for it came upon my life suddenly, I began it with ignorance and also innocence. If I had to do it again I would wish for like the ancients a "high priest" to guide me as I met my troubled inner self and warring parts...."

Why do you think it is your responsibility? I am just trying to understand. I am not asking it to judge you or anything

They were also led blindly, all they know is to walk with their eyes closed. And all they can teach us is to walk with our eyes closed.


Thanks

Hi Mo....possibly what you explain here is how it was like when religion began but I found out the truth about religion actually at a very young age. My parents who were told by their parents told me that nuns and priests were like holy representations of life. So I go to school and I am only in grade 2 and eight years old. My dad had just passed away and I would daydream alot that I would go home and he would be sitting in the big comfy chair in the living room...I guess it was a no-no to daydream in school so each day the nun would beat me with the strap and it would take the entire day for the swelling to go down in my hands. I would sit at night by the window and think how could my parents think nuns are holy when they are hurting me and trying to teach me hatred.
Even at such a young age the contrast of loving parents and a hatefilled nun made a remarkable impression upon me....

Why do I think you can't own your own mind in religion? Its quite logical that if you adhere to a fixed dogma of beliefs you agree to live with a closed mind...plus whoever has the power of your faith, has power over your life....

I think we all feel responsibility for different things in life. I feel responsibility in this area because the journey of psycho-spiritual evolution needs to be understood...the great thinkers in ages past left us thought systems like the Qabalah for purely reasons of gaining wisdom...they hid most of the wisdom in symbols which are a language understood while one is deep in the process of transcendence and integration...wisdom gained serves no purpose in the realm of secrecy because wisdom is not wisdom until it is spoken and shared...

I am never offended by your questions Mo and for a young man I sure do admire your proclivity to be of deep thought about life....


Mikal

[Mikal]

Hi Mikal, congratulations on the new thread, i do enjoy reading your threads, looks like this is going to be a very popular one

Anyway, have been looking around for some interesting stuff related to your topic.

I found this book ..... ''The Perennial Quest for a Psychology with a Soul By Joseph Vrinte''

There's some extremely interesting and very absorbing metaphysical reading to be digested in this book for anyone interested.

http://books.google.com/books?id=x00...ad=3_2#PPP1,M1

Also found this little gem....

Flatland

"Wilber uses the term flatland to describe what happens when one or more of the quadrants is ignored or undervalued. Science describes our external world. Science is a world view that measures our 'reality'. Whatever can't be measured in some way is deemed to be unreal or valueless. Values, feelings and intuition have no part in the scientific world. Scientists have created a flat land where the whole left side of the four quadrants have been flattened into the right. the more science does this (thesis) the more there is a reaction from people not prepared to live in such a polluted flatland (antithesis).
We can also create a flat land when we cut ourselves off from higher levels of development. A tribal society generally makes a sharp distinction between those who are in the group and those who are outside the group. They create a flatland by denying equal status to outsiders. There are usually strict rules governing enforcing co-operation within the group such as a ban on violence to members but an encouragement of violence towards outsiders, especially if they may be a threat. They have created a flat land by ignoring the common humanity we share."

http://www.geocities.com/piers_clement/victor.html

Anyway that's my 2 sense ..
Every little helps as they say

Back Later

Hi Mel...gee, thanks for participating! I want everyone to drop their perspectives here...I'm pretty much a perspective collector...smiles...

Thanks for the link and I will read it and see what I can gather from it...

I understand your thoughts on the flatland...science is too logical and too objective at the expense of the subjective and notional parts of us...however, one would think that someday they might have one of those ahaa moments that can only come from intuition...its kinda like buying an apple and being so darn stubborn that you will only agree to eat one half of it and discard the other half to the trash....makes no sense does it???


Thanks Mikal

[Mikal]

A comment on flatland..
I have had a hard time growing up with feelings, my brother also. I found out that feelings are a bundle of thoughts that cant call upon memories as fast as needed to react. A calm mind is needed to sort the feelings and find every point that the feeling is linked to. Intuition is similar. Our brains have found interesting ways of thinking or reacting to a stimulus faster then an enemy threw emotions. Although the object of science is to measure ‘reality’ we must take our time to understand every one and every emotion. A hast answer may not be the right one.

Hi GB...You remind me of my son! He is very sensitive and had a great deal of difficulty dealing with his feelings. Then his whole life collapsed and he had no other option than to deal with his feelings. That tough time for him lasted for 2 years...a few weeks ago he dropped in for coffee and as we chatted I ask him how he was dealing with his feelings now....He smiled and of course because he is a charmer and a looker...he got this little twinkle in his eye and said...Mom, inside I was a wasteland....a desert....now I'm growing green shubbery....smiles....
Stick with it...amongst the shubbery grows understanding....


Mikal

[austintorn@aol.com]

I was first the child of a mother and a father. Thats a trinity of 3. Does anyone find it strange that humanity has always created a Godhead or viewed a creator as a trinity?

The entire Godhead and scheme is modeled by man after man’s own structures, from the three to the harsh strictness of the human father’s image in the family, at least back when females and children were considered inferior.

The religious concept of reward and punishment
Handed out by an omnipotent, omniscient God,
Is but derivative of family experience—
The child and parent—a conception of our world.

[Mikal]

Austin I cannot identify with those feelings about the family. My real dad was a man of loving compassion and my step-father was about the most decent and fairest man I have met thus far in life...

Religion was created by man, the idea of God was anthropomorphized. I don't see that a creator would have had a hand in that...I just find it strange that the foundation of the world and creation seems to involve the model of father, mother, child...where you see harshness in that, I see love...sure the family is complex in nature but isn't love complex because to discipline your children correctly, is a part of loving them...

As I have said so many times...we just do not understand what a creator would be...that does not mean there is no creator at the beginning...


Mikal

[austintorn@aol.com]

science is too logical and too objective at the expense of the subjective and notional parts of us

Science just didn’t get into it that much yet, for much lower information had to be gone through and figured out onto the way to there, but now they are further getting on with it, for, as usual, science marches on wherever it can. So, no ‘expense’, just first things first, for, let’s face it, the brain is the most complex entity in all the universe, a star, for example being a rather simple thing.

For example, getting closer to explaining explaining time’s direction, sleep’s Purpose, feelings and the entire physical body being inextricably unified, free will, the workings of memory and how it even changes, how we interpret ‘reality’ through vision, what archetypes natural selection implanted in us, etc.

Some is in:

http://www.toequest.com/forum/your-t...per-toe-7.html

And some in:

http://www.toequest.com/forum/psycho...aranormal.html

And more all over TQ.

We find more and more out all the time about our nature and feelings and why and how we think things,

even about consciousness in:

http://www.toequest.com/forum/consci...explained.html

[melanie]

I understand your thoughts on the flatland...science is too logical and too objective at the expense of the subjective and notional parts of us...

This is because the human ingenuity has till date is only conscious of matter energy at the base level of energy pyramid
and totally thoughtless about the vortex of pyramid the Absolute energy of consciousness.

It's ever latent, ever hidden, those with eyes that see, and ears that hear, will find what they are looking for ...
Infinite potential is available to all of us.

however, one would think that someday they might have one of those ahaa moments that can only come from intuition...

its kinda like buying an apple and being so darn stubborn that you will only agree to eat one half of it and discard the other half to the trash....

makes no sense does it???
Thanks Mikal

It's a bit like crossing a busy road and only looking one way .... that makes no sense either...

The colour purple - 'spiritual fitness'

[austintorn@aol.com]

My real dad was a man of loving compassion and my step-father was about the most decent and fairest man I have met thus far in life...

So was my dad loving and kind; he especially didn't want to be like his own father, who was strict. In general, as I indicated, the bulk of this was long ago, when even some decent men were duped (encultured) into this male supremacy role. This state has improved, even in a few churches like the Episcopal.

The initial family of three is what it has to be, given an offspring, so the number '3' is not special or magic in that regard. There's a thread on how often '3' comes up, for it is a useful number state, such as a thing or a concept can have an opposite and a neutral.

Also, hard to beat using facts that are known, as opposed to not, for any real analysis of life and its ways.

[melanie]

I was first the child of a mother and a father.

Thats a trinity of 3.

Does anyone find it strange that humanity has always created a Godhead or viewed a creator as a trinity?

Is the equation of child, mother and father the image of creation itself?? Creation creating itself?

Is that when the drive to individuate surfaces almost as if life has its own intelligence to spot our vulnerability and our weakest moments...???

Mikal

----

It is to be understood that universal time is infinity, driven by the Absolute energy of Consciousness.
Infinity is also is the nature of peace.
Thus peace is an ingredient of universal time, which also influence the time scale of earth and other planets.
When the time is peace, creative and conscious constructions take place and when the time is violent creative destructions takes place.
Thus universe and time relationship is to be perceived within the comprehensive and holistic framework of energy – space – time
to deduce scientific relationship between the three.

Another interesting link here for anyone interested.
http://www.worldpeacetech.com/july1.htm