Consciousness, Transcendence & Integration

[SteveA]

(continued ...)

N-space=qualities of conscious experience. I definitely can align with this thought.

Yes, those appear to be the actual manner in which they're perceived (and that works for me - I want to explore a lot of numbers!)

The 1st dimension=construction of experience over time. I align with this as explanation that experience is objective/subjective, physical action/passive contemplation…etc.

If we look at what time applied to the 2 space gives, it would be the equivalent of continuous motion or change, though all connected together by that attribute of time, so in a sense the first dimension is time itself (and of course because all the rest of the structure is dependent upon this common unit then in many ways the entire tree could be considered similar to a logical representation of time).

Here's another thought to consider - let's say two people were trying to communicate about a uniform duality and each may or may not experience this duality in the same manner.

Now if you tried to "point" to one side of this duality, you couldn't directly describe what conscious property/quality one half had, but let's assume that you could communicate about quantities of them.

In this case though, they're evenly distributed and if you tried to say that it was something for which it was 1 of 2 things, then this could describe either and you couldn't describe a specific selection of one of the two - either matches that description, and in that respect they are identical and only one thing. In a similar manner, any things that exist with an identical probability would have a similar issue, so if communication about these spaces occurs, there's a possibility of miscommunication unless a bias to their representations exists

(Sidenote: Notice that fundamentally there are no probabilities though - anything with a nonzero probability does exist or occur, otherwise it would be impossible and its probability would be zero.)

And I tend to ramble, sorry Mikal

Properties of the space through which these experiences move would be physical life, mental life, emotional life, spiritual contemplative life…very multi-dimensional possibilities I will post an example of later…

Excellent, yes, I'm interested in tying in as much as possible.

My guess is that the 7 space could be similar to short term memory (that's likely not a very fundamental representation though). 8, 9 and 10 can be factored into simpler representations but then we hit 11 as another prime.

Anyway, if you can find any very natural 7 or 11 way symmetries I'm curious about what they could be (these would likely not have natural physical representations because 3-D space doesn't fit these well).

“All other spaces exist and inherit the I-space.” I like this as it points to transitions, mutations, transmutations as possibilities.

Yes, though these alterations might actually occur similar to accessing properties arising from the initial selection from zero space of a 1 space object (in other words - the zero space itself may be the equivalent of something energetic and the selection of a specific object from a set of objects defined by no attributes at all would be like constructing something completely from scratch with no limits).

I'll have to reply more later, but I appreciate that you found the ideas interesting and hopefully some links to the properties and attributes of these space can be found matching some of yours as well.

Until next time ....
Steve

[Mikal]

Thanks Steve...there is alot here to consider and of course your ramblings as you call them are giving me huge insights...I am working on something to post and of course your thoughts are helping to pretty up the landscape so to speak...

I have an afternoon/night shift to attend to that will swing into another early morning/afternoon shift so cannot attend to this now but I will be back with some more thought provoking elements of space, dimenisions and transitions....

Thanks for your participation....like the waves crash to the shore and meet the rocks to expend more energetic properties, its nice to have something to crash into....smiles...


Regards Mikal

[leskey]

Hi, everyone.

It appears that we agree on several points here. I've been doing a little reseach and find that science has been making discoveries in the areas of light, information and communication, at quite a pace.

It may be that coherent light (laser light) originates from AGN (which are giant superconductors). Coherent light is the essential 'character' of light.

READ ABOUT POLARITONS

Quote:
21st of May 2007

"A group of researchers have recently announced the creation of a completely new state of matter that combines the characteristics of lasers with those of the world's best electrical conductors...researchers have been working on a project to create materials which mix the characteristics of superconductors and lasers and have successfully captured the polaritons in the form of a superfluid, using optical nanostructures, thus resulting a form of matter called a polariton superfluid, in which the wave behavior produces a pure light beam similar to that from a laser but is much more energy efficient...Unlike existent superconductors and superfluids, which need a constant temperature between -280 F and -450 F (-173 C to -268 C), the new polariton superfluid demonstrates an increased stability at higher temperatures, and could even, with future improvements, exist at room temperatures...Future practical applications could be revolutionary, allowing the creation of new ways of trapping and manipulating the energy particles, and of achieving a controlled transfer of optical signals through solid matter."

This would have its prerequisite in nature...we merely learn how existence functions in order that we might manipulate it. Creation is our resource. Materially, we create from it.

Our only orginal creation is individual consciousness: the 'reality' we create from our own perceptions.

Light becomes incoherent in time and space. There are spectacular cosmic phenomena which initiate it's journey throughout all matter (except neutrons, which are recycled as coherent light). Through eons, it' etches the silicates in matter with information; it's evidenced in chemical reactions in the laboratory and in processes, such as photosythesis, in nature. Then, there is the similarity of chlorophyl and hemoglobin...which I also liken to the electromagnetic bodies in the plasma of space.

In my view, light is the materialisation of 'will.' As I've stated elsewhere, will is the impulse/freedom to choose: the binary process of action or inaction in a given direction. It is probability - the means of creating the future. It's exhibited throughout all life as 'action potential.'

These 'discoveries' are groundbreaking to our understanding of the properties of light - especially, if all else arises from it.

READ ABOUT REPULSIVE LIGHT FORCE

July 13th, 2009
"A team of Yale University researchers has discovered a "repulsive" light force that can be used to control components on silicon microchips, meaning future nanodevices could be controlled by light rather than electricity. The attractive and repulsive light forces Tang's team discovered are separate from the force created by light's radiation pressure, which pushes against an object as light shines on it. Instead, they push out or pull in sideways from the direction the light travels. An added benefit of using light rather than electricity is that it can be routed through a circuit with almost no interference in signal."

And this:

A PICTURE IS WORTH A SINGLE PHOTON

Tuesday, 23 January 2007
"The first image encoded, stored, and retrieved from a single photon: the right panel is the original image, and the left panel shows the image after it was stored in heated cesium gas and then retrieved...SYDNEY: A single photon has been used to create and store a nearly perfect copy of an entire image at a U.S. laboratory, in an important step toward light-based data storage. The achievement may open the door to 'light computers' that process and store information using simple beams of light instead of the electrical signals currently used in computers."

This may be the method of storing holographic templates in DNA, which enable assembly of the physical being.

All language is a metaphoric for 'being'...it conveys more than we're superficially aware. Light is the language of creation. We see light pertaining to the properties of elements...but, what if it's actually the reverse and elements are the properties of light?

Definition: '-escence' - the process of becoming or beginning

There's so many words relating to light which incorporate this suffix: bioluminescence, candescence, fluorescence, incandescence, iridescence, luminescence, opalescence, pearlescence, phosphorescence, thermoluminescence...then, there are terms that refer to optical qualities of stones: adularescence, labradorescence, peristerescence...

Discoveries are being made so quickly lately, I wonder if they are crossing scientific disciplines to see if the findings can explain natural and cosmic phenomena?

[SteveA]

the characteristics of lasers with those of the world's best electrical conductors...
...
form of a superfluid,
...
much more energy efficient...

A superfluid computational medium with superconductor properties as well ... very nice!

Maybe we can do a little experimentation with real time fractal chemistry. (Now how do you get a view from the inside? Hmmm ... oh wait, we're probably already inside )

Unlike existent superconductors and superfluids, which need a constant temperature between -280 F and -450 F (-173 C to -268 C), the new polariton superfluid demonstrates an increased stability at higher temperatures, and could even, with future improvements, exist at room temperatures...

Very cool ... oops, I mean room temperature (It's ok, I don't get my own jokes either sometimes)

Future practical applications could be revolutionary, allowing the creation of new ways of trapping and manipulating the energy particles, and of achieving a controlled transfer of optical signals through solid matter."

Yes, somehow I think we've been there, done this before though at a different scale.

Similar to my comments that these n-spaces can be fractally embedded within each other, let me give a quick example.

Let's say that we have some fundamental "quanta" that is the equivalent of a single unit of change or time - it's the common property of everything experienced in time.

Now if we constructed a complete "rotation" within a 3 space, for example, to be a new "quanta" then this "quanta" in 3 space is actually 3 fundamental units instead of 1.

If we instead count by 3s instead of 1s, we still construct an object similar in properties to the original "tree" except within the context of a different interleaving of spaces, so instead of the spaces being composed of 1,2,3 etc. units, they're now 3, 6, 9 etc., but if we rescale these, we end up with the same form of spacial properties but "nested" within a 3 space.

This fluid should be capable of universal computation, just like a computer though it would operate more via. wavelengths and resonance instead of discrete digital properties (it's still fundamentally discrete, but interacting on large scales makes the properties appear to be more continuous in nature).

I've already got a map of the dimensions of spaces that exist within such a resonant computations medium too. It's related to the Riemann Hypothesis as well.

It can be "programmed" by shaping it - the form of the container determines its resonance properties.

Ok, yes, there's a slight possibility I'm wrong and misunderstand the article, but it sounds a lot like a form of computational medium I've been considering should exist in a similar sense for us viewed space itself - in effect it could be similar to an external view of "reality" (though that's not necessarily very accurate because the properties of conscious perceptions are not included - the medium only represents the quantitative properties).

In terms of the equivalent dimensional forms of space we can find within such a resonant fluid, consider this:

If we took any pair of randomly selected resonant pathways within such a space, we could call these lengths n and m.

If these two values are relatively prime to each other then they do not "lock" in phase in any properties and can appear similar to just moving at constant velocity relative to each (effectively drifting through space), but if they do share common divisors, then they can appear intertwined and similar to a single object with features embedded within it.

Consider, for example, the probability of n and m both being even and sharing an interaction appearing as a pair of objects:

The probability that a random length for n is even is 1/2 and the same is true for m.

The probability that both n and m are even is 1/2*1/2=1/4 (so this is similar to the probability that a resonance between them creates a 2 space)

For resonance in a 3 space, we would have both n and m divisible by 3 and the probabilty of this is 1/3*1/3=1/9.

We can ignore the 4 space if we're just determining the probability that there is any interaction between two such resonant pathways, as this would already exist within the probability of a 2 space resonance.

The next is 5 and it's paired probability is 1/5*1/5=1/25.

We continue on like this and sum these probabilities to get zeta(2), which is 6/(pi^2)~=60.8%.

And so ~60.8% of all pairs of resonant pathways share a common "dimension" which exists in terms of a shared space of interaction.

There's actually a distribution of dimensional forms we can derive from this as well and determine the probability of objects sharing a specific number of dimensions and n-space components of those common resonances etc.

With the fluid being a super conductor, then information between these spaces can even be rerouted - basically imagine the possibility that you could "route" information from one sense to some other sense - so for example, converting sound into a braille like texture or a lissajous image etc.

Imagine if new forms of perception could be found as well.

Ok, I'm way "out there" I recognize, but my targetting is way "out there" right now because it's the coolest thing I could possibly imagine.

This would have its prerequisite in nature...we merely learn how existence functions in order that we might manipulate it. Creation is our resource. Materially, we create from it.

Yes, we're just copying from a structure of logic that pervades everything, even thought itself.

Our only orginal creation is individual consciousness: the 'reality' we create from our own perceptions.

I don't know if it was created by us - but the specifics appear to be. It seems like it's just some inherent property or potential at the lowest levels of experience or knowledge etc., but there's probably something a lot like the "Nothing" that Melany references that doesn't really follow any rules or can be known etc. - it's just the "Is" that everything else is derived from.

Light becomes incoherent in time and space. There are spectacular cosmic phenomena which initiate it's journey throughout all matter (except neutrons, which are recycled as coherent light). Through eons, it' etches the silicates in matter with information; it's evidenced in chemical reactions in the laboratory and in processes, such as photosythesis, in nature. Then, there is the similarity of chlorophyl and hemoglobin...which I also liken to the electromagnetic bodies in the plasma of space.

Amazing huh? How does it all happen?

And to think that any part of it could still be altered in unlimited ways over time.

It might be best to just kick back and enjoy the show ... the place is already full of plenty and there's a bag to pull more out at any time. Sounds a lot like we're already in heaven, but it just goes overlooked. Yes, I'm having a "Wow" moment right now ... someone did a good job.

In my view, light is the materialisation of 'will.' As I've stated elsewhere, will is the impulse/freedom to choose: the binary process of action or inaction in a given direction. It is probability - the means of creating the future. It's exhibited throughout all life as 'action potential.'

In terms of the n-spaces I mentioned above, in the 1 space things can only timelessly exist - in the 2 space there is only linear change - deterministic logic, but in 3 and above, there are choices and they come in spectrums of spaces and semi-compatible, yet still unique forms of motion etc. It's just an open playing field ...

So if you had to pick something to do, what would it be?

(I think the #1 thing on the to-do list is to see humanity as one big happy family ... we really don't need any more energy or technology etc. until people can make the best use of it. It comes naturally when people are ready for it because the efficiency of a peaceful and prosperous people will always outrun tyranny and oppression - nothing else can "keep up" and that's just the way nature set it up ... we can drag our heels and complain that it's so much fun causing problems but I don't think she falls for it, and I don't think we'd want her to anyway).

[leskey]

Hi, everyone

Let me give a more clear example of this. Let's assume we want to move to some specific position with the 120 possible positions of rotations of an object with 5 distinct serial combinations (the A through E example I gave above).

In this case there are the equivalent of motions possible in all the 1 through 5 spaces. The "objective space" within which this object moves is defined by the 4 attributes/spaces that do not change at any specific time. So if the object is to move in various ways through these 5 spaces, then it needs to "rotate" or swap attributes with the "objective space", and so, for example, it could move with the 5 space to some attribute, then swap or "rotate" with the "objective space" (which is just a second object in the pair) the 4 and 5 spaces, and then it can move to some alignment within the 4 space and then swap 4 and 3 and repeat the same. Then relative to each other they have complimentary views of that position. (There's another way I'm trying to figure out where the two objects are effectively identical and each possesses half the total dimensions of space through which they move and each appears as the environment to the other though in union they double the dimensionality of the space and it's almost like two fluids mixing ... it's just one of those cool ideas that seems to stick around ... I got too many of them though! ).

Steve, I haven't finished reading all your posts, yet, but just thought I'd throw this in...does what you describe here have an analogy/correlation to phase transition? Engles is mentioned in a highly deprecatory fashion, however, there is some definite insight in his work.

From Wiki:

Dialectics of Nature, by Friedrich Engels (1883), is an unfinished work which applies Marxist ideas, and in particular the principles of Dialectical Materialism, to science.

One 'law' proposed in the Dialectics of Nature, is: 'The law of the transformation of quantity into quality and vice versa'. Probably the most commonly cited example of this is the change of water from a liquid to a gas, by increasing its temperature (although Engels also describes other examples from chemistry). In contemporary science, this process is known as a phase transition. There has also been an effort to apply this mechanism to social phenomena, whereby population increases result in changes in social structure [1].

Dialectics and its study was derived from Hegel who had studied the Greek philosopher Heraclitus. Heraclitus taught that everything was constantly changing and that all things consisted of two opposite elements which changed into each other as night changes into day, light into darkness, life into death etc.
Engels's work follows on from what Engels had said about science in Anti-Dühring. It includes the famous The Part Played by Labour in the Transition from Ape to Man, which has also been published separately as a pamphlet. Engels argues that the hand and brain grew together - an idea supported by later fossil discoveries, though it seems the foot came first. (See Australopithecus afarensis: Bipedalism.)
Most of the work is fragmentary, but it has points of interest. In biology, he says:

Vertebrates. Their essential character: the grouping of the whole body about the nervous system. Thereby the development of self-consciousness, etc. becomes possible. In all other animals the nervous system is a secondari affair, here it is the basis of the whole organisation.

[SteveA]

Hi, everyone

Steve, I haven't finished reading all your posts, yet, but just thought I'd throw this in...does what you describe here have an analogy/correlation to phase transition? Engles is mentioned in a highly deprecatory fashion, however, there is some definite insight in his work.

From Wiki:

Dialectics of Nature, by Friedrich Engels (1883), is an unfinished work which applies Marxist ideas, and in particular the principles of Dialectical Materialism, to science.

One 'law' proposed in the Dialectics of Nature, is: 'The law of the transformation of quantity into quality and vice versa'. Probably the most commonly cited example of this is the change of water from a liquid to a gas, by increasing its temperature (although Engels also describes other examples from chemistry). In contemporary science, this process is known as a phase transition. There has also been an effort to apply this mechanism to social phenomena, whereby population increases result in changes in social structure [1].

Dialectics and its study was derived from Hegel who had studied the Greek philosopher Heraclitus. Heraclitus taught that everything was constantly changing and that all things consisted of two opposite elements which changed into each other as night changes into day, light into darkness, life into death etc.
Engels's work follows on from what Engels had said about science in Anti-Dühring. It includes the famous The Part Played by Labour in the Transition from Ape to Man, which has also been published separately as a pamphlet. Engels argues that the hand and brain grew together - an idea supported by later fossil discoveries, though it seems the foot came first. (See Australopithecus afarensis: Bipedalism.)
Most of the work is fragmentary, but it has points of interest. In biology, he says:

Vertebrates. Their essential character: the grouping of the whole body about the nervous system. Thereby the development of self-consciousness, etc. becomes possible. In all other animals the nervous system is a secondari affair, here it is the basis of the whole organisation.

Yes, that's exactly it - quantities of time are converted to qualities of experience.

In some physics papers there are dimensions of time, but these I believe are actually dimensions of the conscious qualities of an experience - for example the property of "blueness" is a specific phase with some n-space of colors.

Fundamentally there are 3 colors but this isn't the reality of vision via the eye - the eye sees quite a large range of colors and of various intensities as well. We might more fundamentally describe colors as composed of 4 states - redness, greenness, blueness and blackness - with various distributions between these determining the specific shade as well as intensity of the light.

This isn't a perfect example, but imagine a tetrahedron, having 4 vertexes similar to this:



But instead the corners would be red, green, blue and black (a gray would lie in the center and the brightest white on the edge of the surface opposite the black vertex).

Now without the intensities it's a 4 space and each color could be seen as a "phase", any motion within the space moves to a different color.

Ah, though we have one more issue involved. Over time, color space must actually be at least a 5 space because we could not remain at black, for example, over time in a 4 space, we'd have to move somewhere that was not a single color, so over time we have to add at least one more dimension. Between 5 symbols though we have transitions that are 1 of 4 possibilities and these could be mapped to one of the 4 vertexes of the tetrahedron. So color information over time should arise from a 5 way symmetry, but we're still not really including intensity information and the actual colors seen by the eye with various hues and intensities etc. exist with properties in a significantly larger space, though the "prototype" for it appears to exist in a 4 dimensional space - so when we see a color we're sort of looking back to a lower level of experience though with layers of additional properties added to it - for example there should exist a pure blueness prototype that would likely be of a pure quality unlike a blue normally seen - just as a molecule could be said to contain protons, but the molecule itself is composed of additional spacial features appended to these and doesn't represent the pure property of a proton).

So anyway, time accumulates in experience and is directed into motion within different spaces of experience - again, in terms of dualities there is only change/forward/motion without context, but in terms of larger spaces (again these are abstract spaces of pure attributes or properties of experience only) the are unique selections available in the direction of experience as well as the equivalent of "spectrums" of such spaces because some motions cannot be "factored" into selections compatible with other spaces (for example, in a 6 space, we have 5 possible motions whereas in a 9 space we have 8 possible motions - we can break these 8 possible motions into 2*2*2=8, which gives the equivalent of a motion selected within 3 separate 3 spaces (to move in a 3 space, you need a binary selection of which of the two alternates to move to, and there are 3 binary "decisions" made by a selection from 1 of 8 things, but none of these allow for the selection of 1 of 5 destinations in a 6 space, though there are ways of combining spaces on larger scales to approach a compatibility between all these) and this gives the appearance of separated spaces of experience that do not immediately appear interconnected in their relationships.

Yes, I recognize these ideas are rather complex, but I think they're actually rather easy in comparison to many attempted physical theories (and definitely more encapsulting of an "Everything" )

Now we still have a specific timeline of experience that passes through this space and that's still something to pair up with this structure and it's interesting to consider the possible forms of motion that are available. (That's the next thing to work on)

[Mikal]

Hi all...one more shift to go and I'm homefree to bring my attention here. Right now, partially braindead...lol...from my back-to-back shifts...be back over the weekend...

Regards Mikal

[austintorn@aol.com]

partially braindead

Actually, the brain does little or nothing, does it not?

[Mikal]

Don't take things so literal...its a descriptive term for I am bloody tired...

Good night...Mikal

[SteveA]

Hi all...one more shift to go and I'm homefree to bring my attention here. Right now, partially braindead...lol...from my back-to-back shifts...be back over the weekend...

Regards Mikal

That's fine. Don't rush and rest up. I'm certain we'll be here

As always,
Steve