Hawking & Mlodinow: No Theory of Everything?

Originally Posted by Robert

You can view the page at http://www.toequest.com/forum/conten...-of-Everything

In a quantum world, particles don't have definite locations or even definite velocities until they've been observed. This is a far cry from Newton's world, and Hawking/Mlodinow argue that - in light of quantum mechanics - it doesn't matter what is actually real and what isn't, all that matters is what we experience as reality.

In a Scientific American essay based on their new book A Grand Design, Stephen Hawking and Leonard Mlodinow are now claiming physicists may never find a theory of everything. Instead, they propose a "family of interconnected theories" might emerge, with each describing a certain reality under specific conditions.

Any thoughts on changing the forum name to F.I.T. Quest?

If the quantum world is true, then there is 'it' (reality) from 'bit' (information).

At least there still may be 'information'.

This may also be how consciousness operates: 'it' (inner reality) from 'bit' (neurological information), but… the neural is also reality.

How about that macro reality is really real, washing out the tiny quantum states which may have no reality until observed.

It is also probably that quantum waves collapse by collision or by gravity.

It could also be that no complicated TOE is there because all must be random down at the deepest level—the causeless. This, though, is still the TOE, that there is an absolute "law of no laws" there.

The TOE had to be simple, and this doesn't get any simpler.

On and up, beyond the causeless, then, of course, there would be laws, causes and effects, etc.

THERE MUST BE THE CAUSELESS,
THUS, THAT IS THE SUPER TOE!

The train of thought has driven us to the answer,
Of all that borne from ‘near nothing’ onto eternity,
Of the origin of the original disorder,
The lone dawn of our trackless radix,
Via the rails and tunnels that ever ran out:

There cannot be ever more and more
Causes beneath even more extended causes;
Therefore, intuitive or not, the causeless is,
Being such as what we observe it in the quantum.

Thus, cause is only of our higher realm,
As downward thence to its root emergence—
‘Possibility’ needed no mother but itself,
An egg burst open, born without a chicken.

The causeless bottom is the potential
Of possibility that is/was ever there.

Since it’s ‘defined’ as an undefined chaos,
There’s no problem of no initial definition had,
Since it can’t have one and so it needs not any.

Things themselves become and go of ‘virtual’ potential,
Some things remaining as the rather-enduring real.
The potential is as near to simple as it gets,
Second only to the nonexistent Nothing, of course.

So, then, the potential is of no mind or ‘seeing’,
For that thought system can never be constituted,

As there are no more fundamentals upon more;
For, the Potential is already the ultimate basis.

Simple things ever combine, and further up,
And/or go must through phase changes,
Leading to more complex composites/forms.

Nothing, not existing at all,
And not even being able to,
But, perhaps threatening to,
Is the simplest state of all,
So, it must ever jiggle about,
Manifesting as loose ‘change’.

You might say, then, that, that is exactly why
There had to be the potential for things;
Otherwise… Total Nothing, forever.

We have now reached the unexpected TOE,
One that even satisfies the ongoing trend,
For, looking down, we’ve always observed
The ever descending simplicity of Nature.

Now, as such, we can’t really expect to find
An Ultimate Complexity sitting
Around there at the simplest point.

We didn’t find Mind there;
Thus, we are ever free to be.

This causeless bottom ‘fate’…
Was/is, too, a kind of ‘magical’ state,
For anything could have become of it.



Why Must Totality be Causeless?

Well, if there was something prior,
Or there was something larger,
Then it’s not Totality or the All;
However, we are already speaking of Totality.

Thus it is eternal and infinite, as well,
Having neither beginning nor end,
And is also unbounded in extent,
Both in the large and in the small.

Any description of a donut hole has to be about the donut.

If there can be a hole in space, then surely space has a fabric.

Anyone like my renditions, echoing Hawking, that the theories of the everythings can be many and arbitrary—this actually being the TOE?

Originally Posted by austintorn@aol.com

If there can be a hole in space, then surely space has a fabric.

Space-time? If time is a fabric, then surely there can be a hole in it?

Dear friends,

Once Hawking have said that the TOE (which will merge quantum to relativity) could not be achieved was due to the incompleteness of current physics theories. Now it seems that he has changed his mind! Is this mean that he had found that even with the complete current physics theories, he still could not unite quantum to relativity?

Sincerely,
Nimit
-------------------
www.vacuum-mechanics.com .

Originally Posted by Meem

Space-time? If time is a fabric, then surely there can be a hole in it?

I think we are perhaps just getting a glimps of one threshold, aether or the fabric of space, whatever you want to call it which does have structure. It is not nothing, but allows transmission of light, energy, and mass and so it must have structure.

I suspect that there are finer grain thresholds which will have more TOEs. The aether particles themselves might be transmitted through this finer sea. There maybe an infinite number of thresholds and the aether or structure we see now is limited in space and developed over a certain amount of time. I also suspect there will be the odd ruptures or holes in that threshold, perhaps with sub-aether boiling bubbles.

What seems to carry on through all of this evolution which has gone on for ever is our mathematical concepts which must come from somewhere. I learned this from Carl Sagan. Our 3 dimensional space seems real. Time seems to carry on. No matter how small, I can still vizualize the circle. It might get bumpy because of QM, but I can always get a smaller pen and finer paper to see that it is bumpy.

I have thought about taking it to the limit of infinity and wondered if we are in a solid sea of infinitesimal particles or disturbances. When these bump into each other, they will (with 99% chance) likely create torque and thus rotation and vorticular motion is as much profound as the straight line.

Of course if branes and superstrings are at the bottom and the TOE is 'THE' TOE, then I don't know what is more wonderous. If there is nothing beyond the TOE, then what created the math?

Respectfully

Yes, I'd say that space exists, and may even be absolute. As for infinite layers, I'd say not, for then it would take an eternity for any effect to bubble up, this being know as the infinite regress.

Math may just be amenable to describing regularities, of which the universe has many.

The TOE probably really is that anything can happen. There's nothing before the causeless to set any specific direction or design.

Originally Posted by vacuum-mechanics

Dear friends,

Once Hawking have said that the TOE (which will merge quantum to relativity) could not be achieved was due to the incompleteness of current physics theories. Now it seems that he has changed his mind! Is this mean that he had found that even with the complete current physics theories, he still could not unite quantum to relativity?

Sincerely,
Nimit
-------------------
www.vacuum-mechanics.com .

As quoted from the article: "In a quantum world, particles don't have definite locations or even definite velocities until they've been observed. This is a far cry from Newton's world, and Hawking/Mlodinow argue that - in light of quantum mechanics - it doesn't matter what is actually real and what isn't, all that matters is what we experience as reality."

So, I understand that what they are saying is: "we can't be sure of what we are seeing at the quantum level". So if you try to marry that to GR then we will never be absolutely sure. Somehow we have to get beyond that Planck distance 1.6 x 10-35m. We have to get a real grasp of the wave mechanics in order to remotely lever other tools to poke at such a small scale.

I am proceeding to reconcile my rotating wave theory with string theory and Kaluza's helical 5th dimension which partly inspired the string theory. Einstein was startled by it in 1920 and supported Kaluza's publication which proposed a unification of EM and gravity in 5 dimensions. Physicists were not interested in higher dimensions until 50 years later when Scherk and Cremer proposed the Kaluza-Klein curled up small dimension as a solution to why we went from 26 unstable dimensions down to 10 and then in a bang to 4.

What I am thinking is that these higher dimensions are perhaps just different ways to view and incorporate the 4 known forces together within a framework of relativity that says REAL time slows down. In the rotating wave theory, space and time are inherently connected and represented by the helical path of the wave and that is where I think Kaluza's mathematical helical 5th dimension comes in. It is not a 5th dimension in the rotating wave (wavicle); it is just another way of looking at it. This is in the least fertile ground to cultivate further research in M Theory and higher dimensions. I suspect that a wave function of matter which in itself explains relativity, will reduce the required number of higher dimensions.

Serious fun.

Hello, my name is Stephen Tuck. You are correct, space is real. Mass converts into space in a black hole, which accounts for the accelerated expansion of the universe called Dark Energy and for Particle-Wave Duality. The model for Quantum Mechanics is flawed. It is based on the powerful mathematics of probability, but the universe is deterministic in nature. Philosophically the flaw was due to Logical Positivism of the 20th century. Superposition does not exist. Entangled particles are spin-anti-spin correlated due to their collision. When you take a measurement, you have just disrupted the system because you had to use matter/energy to measure it. Therefore String Theory is incorrect. The proof is hidden in the equation E=MC^2. The real equation is E=Space*Mass*Time. Mathematical proof is that the equations for Time Dilation and Mass Increase are the same. This is due to their mathematical relationship as terms of the same equation. The full equation is Energy = ((Space * Mass * Time) / (1 - (Velocity^2 / C^2))^0.5) - (Space * m0 * Time). However, set m0 to 0 when calculating energy equivalence Mass/Time transformations. Space and Time must initially be set to the Speed of Light. In an equation solver you must zero out velocity to calculate one variable and then add it back to get the 2nd one since this is a differential equation. Time is the kinetic energy of mass. Gravity is infact a curvature of space. I believe that I have successfully completed Einstein's work. While I need to create a permanent non-editable site, here is a link where I have posted my complete theory: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Theory_of_Everything. Thanks.

If science realistically wants the truth, they need to start with it.
Theories will lead them to only more and more theories.

=
MJA

You would start with a dogma declared all at once?

I would start with myself!

=

Yourself is long after the fact.

I am now,
I am not a theory or a family of theories,
I am simply equal,
I am true,
I am One,
I am,

=
MJA

You weren't, but now you are, etc.

Originally Posted by austintorn@aol.com

You weren't, but now you are, etc.