A consuming fire-are you hungry!!

[mkirkpatrick]

Hey, Michael, I need a light ...Yes, I really do...

Michelle,there is a spark within you,fan it and it will glow!
With the chat room closed,drop me an email,take care.


kindest regards michael.

[Mohan.C]

You seem hungry Mohan?These "facts" that I mention,and yes they are facts to me,to others,it is fantasy,bull...t,lunacy,fanciful notions of absurdity! The
world is full of mockers and scoffers,but such is life.I have gathered these ideas from all over this world,much indeed from your own land,a land with a
great depth of spirituality,the noble teachings of the Bhagavad Gita,It is inte-
resting that there is no Sanskrit word that is equivalent to the word "religion".
Instead Hinduism sees itself as an approach to understanding our place in the
universe."we all need to find our own way Home,to the God within us.I have
also learned much from the orient,from Europe,and from our brothers the north American Indians,who have a profound wisdom,that is in grave danger
of being lost.The living fires of creation,burn away the dross,to reveal that
"jewel" that is within,a gem that is liquid fire.To look within its Flame,one has
to "die" of self?

kind regards michael.

One does really have to die of self. But still I have a doubt which I hope you can clear 1.When we die of self won't we be aware of it?
2.Do we need to deflate our ego to gain or for what?
3.Do we live to gain, What is it that we must gain?
4.Is to gain is to be greedy or is it necessity?
Well, I hope this did not become too spiritual seeing it is in the cosmological theories forum!!.

[mkirkpatrick]

Mohan.C.It is good to ask questions,and when you get answers to them,test
them,try them,see within yourself,intuitively if it seems so!If what is said offends your reason,then reject it! it is not for you.If on the otherhand it "feels" right,and does not offend your inner reason,then accept it and move on.You asked when we die of self,wont we be aware of it?Yes,you will be aware of it!But you will "refrain" from reflecting on it!Do we need to deflate
our ego to gain,or for what?There is no (gain)or loss,only re-discovery of
you rightful inheritence!An inflated ego,courts its kinfolk,that of arrogance
and low-deceit.And presents an inpeneterable barrier for any spiritual
practises or disciplines.Do we live to gain,what isit that we must gain?
We live,neither for loss nor gain,but,unfoldment,to re-discover,who,and,what
we really are,evolution is a unfolding process!
Lastly you asked,is to gain,is to be greedy,or is it necessity!It is of necessity
that through life long endevour of practising the principles of unfoldment,
you will unfold!Greed and gain belong to the land of shadows and fear,and if
one is wise,you recoil from them as you would a striking Cobra?
kind regards michael.

[harmonygirl]

Interesting notion Michael, but you might as well say all is air or water or earth. Fire is only one of the fundamental elements and is energy in one form only. I think all is energy. Interesting that of all the fundamental elements (or directions according to Aboriginal lore), fire is the only one that is time dependant. I wonder if that is significant...just musing out loud...

[mkirkpatrick]

Interesting notion Michael, but you might as well say all is air or water or earth. Fire is only one of the fundamental elements and is energy in one form only. I think all is energy. Interesting that of all the fundamental elements (or directions according to Aboriginal lore), fire is the only one that is time dependant. I wonder if that is significant...just musing out loud...

That is not correct,Harmony,the source that informed me
of these "ideas" that from the ancient wisdom,and the esoteric teachings
and science of the east,say,that "all" is fire,Air=fludic fire,Water=liquid fire,
Earth=solid fire,a triplicity of fire that is universal in operation.

kind regards michael.

[harmonygirl]

but Michael, couldn't the same thing be said of air or water (or to a certain extent earth)? Maybe the point here is that they are indeed one, but by categorizing all into a certain one, we are allowing hierarchy (and evaluation) to reign (?)...this doesn't make sense to me...

[mkirkpatrick]

but Michael, couldn't the same thing be said of air or water (or to a certain extent earth)? Maybe the point here is that they are indeed one, but by categorizing all into a certain one, we are allowing hierarchy (and evaluation) to reign (?)...this doesn't make sense to me...

You are of course correct,up to a point,Harmony,they are indeed one,that "appear" as three,but in dealing and in understanding these aspects,
one needs to be mindful,that each aspect,as it "appears" to present "itself"?
in a centre of intelligent consciousness,and are indeed within an hierarchy!
Each to its own,although,they all impinge on each others realms,at certain
points!We in the west just see "mindless" elements,in the east they see and
oft-times communicate with the elementals,as points of intelligence,and noble bearing!

kind regards michael.

[harmonygirl]

I think we might have to disagree here Michael. I don't believe that hierarchy is a natural state of being. I don't believe "better than" applies in nature. There is difference, of couse, but no valuation, credit/discredit situation. I think this is just the lens we put on things. Out of curiousity, when communicating with some elements, in Eastern thought, are they viewed in a hierarchical fashion?

[mkirkpatrick]

Harmony,I understand where you are coming from,and the idea of beings
better than us,is unacceptable and quite right,and would indeed run contary
to nature,There is however no question of "better" that is a value judgement
and has within it ego centric priorities,which some what clouds the issue.
These life forms,that are on a differing evolutionary path than us,are in a sense seen as brothers,they are "not" seen as better than us,different yes!
When they are communicated with by our eastern brothers,they are seen as
that,"brothers"elder brothers yes,but nevertheless as brothers.By the way
there are many in the west now that thinkthe same,and practise the same
disciplines.
To become hungry for the truth,to become bold and join the quest for enlight
enment,when this is truly your lifes goal,then you ignite the internal fires and
even the stones on the ground will aid you in this noble quest?
kind regards michael.

[harmonygirl]

okay, elements as sisters, I completely get. Different path and elder sisters also make sense to me. You're right the notion of hierarchy only has value judgments because that is the way our society regards it. Maybe it is possible to have hierarchy and not have a "better than" situation. Some of the Buddhist texts that I have read stated this, and caused me to disregard them. I may need to revisit. Thanks Michael.