[WithoutMe]

If anything (& hence everything) came from nothing, then there was a coming into being from Nothing, now if that is so, then it was not Nothing that was before anything came into being, coz Nothing is not being anything & if that comes into being, then it’s certainly not Nothing!!

So, the Nothing which really is Nothing cannot have the parameters of space or time, or having ant parameter would make it something, & if Nothing doesn’t have any parameter of space-time, then Nothing cant even evolve (coz it doesn’t have the time parameter) & Nothing cannot have any shape or form (coz it doesn’t have the space parameter)....

By saying: "Before there was anything, there was nothing.", one is fixing "nothing" to a time-period of "before anything", & how can nothing be fixed to a time, as for fixing anything, that thing to be fixed has to exist first & foremost, whereas if "nothing" exists, then it certainly is not "nothing", coz what exists is something & nothing is simply not something or anything.

What one may instead be saying is that -- instead of using the word "nothing", use the word "nothingness", as "nothingness" means "the property or the phenomenon of being no anything" & that certainly is not in any way same as "nothing"!!! I believe most people misplace the words "nothingness" with "nothing" -- the two may look similar, but are no way near each other.... oops!

Nothing is a point where there is neither self nor God as other, but a point wherein all things & no-things are just what they are. But nothing is not to be confused with the concept of nothingness, which is but “being nothing”. Being nothing means being something, where the something is nothing. The very concept of being preludes the concept of existence, but if nothing did exist, then it certainly is not nothing, because being itself will falsify itself. So, the nothing is not this nothing as compared to that nothing, or there nothing as compared to here nothing or, then nothing as compared to now nothing, for then it will but be a relative nothing. Relative nothing necessarily precedes & follows everything, because anything & everything exists between & within the boundary of a relative nothing, whereas the nothing is the nothing. Its merely is as it is & being that, it simply isn’t what it is.

As whatever we talk about has to be initially cognized to be of any sense to anyone, so the Nothing (which really is nothing) is beyond the existence of all there is; it is not (& cannot be) cognized by the mind as an idea or concept that can be talked about or expressed by any means. This is why any one can only give hints & clues regarding the nothing & not directly talk about it, for whenever it is talked about it ceases to be nothing & instead becomes the “being nothing” or what the Existentialists call “nothingness” (a.k.a. “relative nothing”).

Regards,
wM.

PS. The Nothing that truly is Nothing is not the Nothing that can be talked about….. I know, it sounds so similar to Lao Tzu’s saying on the Tao!!!

Infact the Nothing that truly is Nothing is not the Nothing that is Nothing, coz “being Nothing” is even being something!

[mkirkpatrick]

Welcome to the toe.Withoutme,
You are right of course,much has been said and written about nothing!
I see it as two words,no-thing,the absence of a thing!If there is indeed the
absence of a thing,then there is what?An empty space!A vacuum.A void where no-things are in evidence?There are some who believe,that all things
came from no-thing!Does this not at least suggest absurdity?I may very well
add more to this thread,right now though I have no-thing more to say.

kind regards michael.

[Graybeard]

I like to think of 'before the beginning' as a nothing-with-potential.

This is a nothing that is as empty as it can possibly be. In fact ... to make it any emptier would require the input of more energy then there is left in the nothing-with-potential. This means that the nothing is as empty as it can be ... it cannot ever be any emptier ... but it still has a non-zero potential.

I don't know if this is what you mean by nothingness ... Perhaps there is no true nothing, never has been ....

Zero, nothing, NULL


greg

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Graybeard I like to think of 'before the beginning' as a nothing-with-potential. This is a nothing that is as empty as it can possibly be. In fact ... to make it any emptier would require the input of more energy then there is left in the nothing-with-potential. This means that the nothing is as empty as it can be ... it cannot ever be any emptier ... but it still has a non-zero potential. I don't know if this is what you mean by nothingness ... Perhaps there is no true nothing, never has been .... Zero, nothing, NULL greg

I think you are right Greg,there is a great deal of some-thing,and no deal on no-thing!

regards michael.