[sillysally]

Originally Posted by Profpat In your case you are assuming that time at its smallest or largest can't be measured, and therefore, we are in eternity. You may be right.

I think it's called the eternal now.

Space I view to be the entire universe and everything in it.

Its opposite would be the void where nothing exist and its touching our universe. Best, Pat

What would nothing look like? It can't be black or white, nor any other color that we can imagine. We would never see it because it would be the opposite of being seen. In fact, would we never even know about it because it would be the opposite of being known so I think that makes your idea null because you just mentioned it and now we know so it's not possible.

[Profpat]

Originally Posted by sillysally I think it's called the eternal now. What would nothing look like? It can't be black or white, nor any other color that we can imagine. We would never see it because it would be the opposite of being seen. In fact, would we never even know about it because it would be the opposite of being known so I think that makes your idea null because you just mentioned it and now we know so it's not possible.

Hi Sally;

Metaphysically, I agree with the infinite here and the eternal now. Like we discussed before I think what makes the most sense is illusion.

My idea null? How about Void.

Best to you Sally,

Pat

[sillysally]

Originally Posted by Profpat Hi Sally; Metaphysically, I agree with the infinite here and the eternal now. Like we discussed before I think what makes the most sense is illusion.

Do you think that we should be more concerned about the here and now as opposed to the God knows what? I had an illusion once, it was more like a flash in my mind, I was in a relaxed state about to fall asleep. I saw the world behind a screen (like a projection), it was tinted amber and I could zoom really close into it. I was far enough to see the entire earth but I don't know how far. Most of my other flashes are of strangers in distress, usually in deadly situations, I sometimes wonder if those people are real and what I saw really happened.

What kind of illusions do you have?

[Profpat]

Originally Posted by sillysally Do you think that we should be more concerned about the here and now as opposed to the God knows what?Yes I do, and I usually enjoy the here/now. I had an illusion once, it was more like a flash in my mind, I was in a relaxed state about to fall asleep. I saw the world behind a screen (like a projection), it was tinted amber and I could zoom really close into it. I was far enough to see the entire earth but I don't know how far.Plato's image was a shadow or projection on the cave wall. Most of my other flashes are of strangers in distress, usually in deadly situations, I sometimes wonder if those people are real and what I saw really happened.I believe we are all attached, and if you are an empath, why not. I'm glad they are just flashes for you. What kind of illusions do you have?

That I and my reality are real.

I tranced myself once by looking into a candle flame, suddenly whoosh, I was out of my body. Funny thing this awareness wasn't Pat, it was the universal " I AM " , and there I was in absolute blackness, except for a twinkling light, and the absolute awareness that all is illusion.

Slowly my awareness was being erased as erasing a blackboard. I panicked and self jumped right back in my ( Pats ) body.

I read later that I should have let self be erased and then the mysteries would have been revealed .

I thought about retrancing myself but I don't think I want to know the mysteries. I like a woman and the universe to be mysterious.

God bless.

Pat

[everymansmedium]

Hi Pat:
I tried one more time to describe my experiance of the membrane. Using words that are but images and sounds that make your mind bring up pictures of your own ideas about those words that were ment to depict an absolute experiance within my own mind. Sometimes it feels like such a futile effort. But because I know that there is a true connection between all that lives, I try again to show a picture. The universe is both infinite and finite. The multiverse is a steady state of 2 finite existance mediums on an infinite interface.

http://unit-unity-community.com/the-membrane.htm

The same absolute experiance but different words. Is one set of words better than another to do the same job. You tell me what is better.
Be well John.

[Profpat]

[quote=everymansmedium;36561]Hi Pat:
I tried one more time to describe my experiance of the membrane. Using words that are but images and sounds that make your mind bring up pictures of your own ideas about those words that were ment to depict an absolute experiance within my own mind. Sometimes it feels like such a futile effort. But because I know that there is a true connection between all that lives, I try again to show a picture. The universe is both infinite and finite. The multiverse is a steady state of 2 finite existance mediums on an infinite interface.

http://unit-unity-community.com/the-membrane.htm

The same absolute experiance but different words. Is one set of words better than another to do the same job. You tell me what is better.
Be well John.[/quote

Hi John;

I'm not sure, maybe the current URL above.

Best,

Pat

[futrethink]

Profpat.

Sorry I don't find a mobius strip to be any more paradoxical than a wedding ring.

---Actually, they aren't that different. They're both finite, both infinite, both finite and infinite (at the same time) and neither one is infinite or finite.
---In the previous post I said, "Just as many other things do, depending on the perception." When what I should have said was, "Just as everything else is, depending on the perception."
---Anyway, I'm gonna leave that concept alone for now and stick with the strip just being both infinite and finite. A paradox. 3.any person, thing, or situation exhibiting an apparently contradictory nature. Note: to be considered as close to objective a definition as possible, it should also include ideas/concepts

To me a paradox has to be contradicatory, and I see no contradiction in pi or a mobius strip.

---And you don't see the contradiction with something being infinite/boundless/unlimited and that very same thing being finite/having boundaries/limits?
---Follow along the length of the plane of a strip and you will never find an end/boundary/limit, but only as long as you don't move away from the strip and see the edges/boundaries/limits of the strip's existence or you don't tear the strip apart or it degrades due to entropy or..or...or,,.
---The strip is infinite and has no limits, but only as long as you don't pass certain finite limits.
---For something to be infinite it has to have ABSOLUTELY no limits. That is the objective definition of infinite. Place any limits on something and it is objectively finite.
---So the Mobius strip is both and yet it can't be both, because the two concepts are completely contradictory of each other. Thereby existing as a paradox.

---As for

Slowly my awareness was being erased as erasing a blackboard.

, I'd say it wasn't being erased. Merely being altered into something else. The you that was you would still exist. It was just that you were probably perceiving something different than the normal mindtrap that most people are comfortable being in.

I read later that I should have let self be erased and then the mysteries would have been revealed .

---You wouldn't have all the answers to every mystery. After all, you can't figure out what doesn't exist and is the objective concept of the subjective symbol, "unknown."

[futrethink]

sillysally.

In fact, would we never even know about it because it would be the opposite of being known so I think that makes your idea null because you just mentioned it and now we know so it's not possible.

---Describing objective nonexistence exactly is an impossibility. All that we can do is guess/describe a possibility of something that we have absolutely no idea about/physical perception of.

[Profpat]

Sorry Futrethink:

I still don't see the mobius as paradoxical.

I see the universe as paradoxical, something from nothing.

If I was walking on your mobius strip, and started to lay crumbs of bread down, I would eventually return to my starting point, where I started with the crumbs ( assuming no stupid birds ate them ). THE LIMIT, It has a beginning and an end, also mobius has edges, further limits.

The latest fashion, is no fashion.
Thats a paradox. It contradicts.

But if you want to view it as paradoxical it's OK with me. In your research did you find any support for pi or the mobius to be paradoxical?

Best to you,

Pat

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Originally Posted by Profpat I see the universe as paradoxical, something from nothing.

Pat, may I suggest you read other threads on this forum, to obtain information that the universe has no paradoxes, and does not come from nothing. Several posters and many threads clearly show these results. The universe is eternal, and always has existed as a fundamental substance with fundamental motion. It's only quack science that says something from nothing. Fundamental science knows better. The rest of the pieces are slowly falling into place. Evolution of ideas___You Know...? Even Einstein knew it came from something more than nothing, he just failed to find the answer...

Lloyd