[MJA]

Originally Posted by cosvis

Hi to all,

To continue with our TOEQuest, The Eternal Evolving Universe, the big question is what happened at its origin when the universe was in the form of pure energy or light? How did the transformation of energy to matter occur?

Yours cosvis.

Dear Cosvis,

Perhaps their never was or is a transformation of energy to matter, that they are always truly one and same.
Perhaps also, it is only the flaw of uncertain measure, of inequitable thinking that divides the universe and creates so many differences, so many questions or doubts.
Then perhaps also, energy and matter, a wave and a particle, Yin and Yang, without the flaw of uncertain thought, are truly one or the same.
Or perhaps just another more equitable way to think!

=
MJA

[cosvis]

Hi MJA and all,

I agree with you MJA, basically energy and matter "are always truely one and the same." Matter is a concentration of energy but the basic stuff of matter is energy, quanta or Planck particles. The question is how does the evolutionary process of the formation of pure energy or quanta particles, into zero rest mass particles occur in the Hawking process? Unfortunately, I am not a quantum physicist and I cannot anwser the question.

All I dare to say is that by means of this process, pure energy can be changed into zero rest mass sub atomic particles like protons , electron, neutrons, neutrinos and many more. Once there are neutrons, there are also protons and electrons since a neutron decays into a proton and an electron and an anti neutrino. A neutron particle only has a mean life of 12 minutes outside the nucleus.

I like to speculate that each quantum particle has an attractive force due to its gravitational potentional energy, by means of which it is attracted to other quanta particles. Under great pressure and temperature, which would occur at the event horizon of a black hole, the attractions and forces are so great, in spite of the speed of each individual quantum particle, these quanta particles form zero rest mass subatomic matter and anti matter particles. These matter and anti matter particles would separate, with the matter particles escaping within the black hole universe. The anti matter particles would form an outer cover of the black hole.

It could be that the first form of sub atomic particles escaping into the universe consist mainly in the form of neutron particles. These neutron particles are composed of a proton and electron and anti neutrinos. After a while the neutron will form just protons and electrons and other subatomic particles. At this stage the first hydrogen atoms are formed and through the evolutionary process, the other atomic particles are formed leading eventually to the formations of gallaxies and other physical cosmic bodies.

I like what you said MJA: "Then perhaps energy and matter, a wave and a particle, Yin and Yang, without the flaw of uncertain thought, are truely one and the same." I like to see them as the same stuff viewed from a different perspective like a coin seen from the up side or the down side; like a man and a woman, both created in the image of God, but also each very unique and beautiful.

Yours Cosvis.

[cosvis]

Hi to all,

I think the investigation into the most fundamental evolutionary process of the universe, the formation of sub atomic particles from pure energy or quanta particles is very important and vital in our quest for a TOEquest solution. Once the neutron particles are formed from the pair production of neutrons and anti neutrons, there already exist all the fundamental sub atomic particles and four fundamental forces in nature.

To give just a brief view of the vast field of sub atomic particles. Scientists have divided the subatomic particles into leptons and hadrons. Leptons are particles like electrons, muon, neutrinos, and tau. These particles seem to have no internal structures and give raise to the electromagnetic interactions and the weak nuclear interaction. There are many hadrons particles like nucleons, pions and many other. These particles interact by means of the strong interactions and they have complex internal structures. Hadrons are divided into baryons which decay into protons; and mesons which decay into leptons and photons. Baryons are made up of three quarks held together by gluons. Mesons consists of quark-antiquark pairs and they inclued the kaon, pion and psi particles. Mesons are thought to be participate in the forces that hold nucleons together in the neucleus.

The scientists are trying hard to work out a comprehensive theory to combine all these basic sub atomic particles into a simple, orderly, symmetric system. I wonder if the idea that the basic stuff of matter, consist of quanta particles which have two constant, equal and opposite kinetic and gravitational forces and energy, can be of any benefit?

Yours Cosvis.

[cosvis]

Hi to all,

Since a symmetrical intregation of all the basic subatomic particles is still a mystery to us, it gives us scope to speculate. I had speculated that the most fundamental stuff of matter are quanta or Planck particles consisting of two fundamental forces and energies, equal put opposite, kinetic and gravitational. The kinetic force gives it a constant speed, the speed of light, and the gravitational force gives it a constant attractive force. I further speculated that in an environment of great energies and temperature, as found at the event horizon of a black hole, these quanta particles can club or cling together forming sub atomic particles.

I had also speculated earlier, that since the quanta particles have equal but opposite kinetic and gravitational forces and energies, they themselves could be black holes, the smallest black holes possible. If this is right, than it could further be speculated that the sub atomic particles themselves, could have a possible black hole structures. If this were so, than the basic structure of leptons particles who seem to have no inner structure, could possibly be black holes depending on the quantity of quanta particles. They would consist of an inner core which could be regarded as the inner part of a black hole within the event horizon, in which the quanta particle clink and circulate each other. It will also have an outer part consisting of the gravitational attractive force.

To take an example of an electron particle; if the inner core consists of positive circulating quanta particles, the outer layer of the electron would give it an opposite negative charge, which would balance the inner core and would thus give it also a non zero mass structure. However, electrons like all subatomic particles, themselves can have motions but this motion is less than the speed of light. Since they have non zero mass they exist in the fourth dimensional frame and are subject to the Einstein's relativity laws.

These are purely speculations, but they may lead to a deeper understanding of a possible symmetrical field of subatomic particles, that include all sub atomic particles.

Yours Cosvis.

[cosvis]

Hi to all,

Coming to the hadrons sub atomic particles, we know that these particles consists of other sub atomic particles. The mesons can decay into leptons and photons, where as the baryons decay into protons. The proton is one of the most stable sub atomic particle in the universe and its decay process might be 10^35 to 10^45 years and it decays into a positron and pion. The proton has a positive electrical charge equal to the negative electrical charge of an electron, and it has a mass that is 1836.12 times that of an electron.

We also know that the proton has an internal structures made up of other sub atomic particles like quarks, but these can never be found outside a proton. I would like to continue with my speculation that the sub atomic particles have a basic structure of a black hole. If this is true than I could speculate that the proton itself has a basic stucture of a black hole, with an inner core within its event horizon and an outer layer consisting of the elctrical charge and its gravitational field. The proton could be regarded as mini universe where nothing can escape exept when it itself decays. Other sub atomic particles can exist and interact with other sub atomic particles within the proton like galaxies and solar systems can exist and do interact with each other in the universe.

These speculations of the physical cosmos would give a beautiful symmetrical vision of the universe. It would include all matter and structures and forces of the universe from the very basic quanta particles to the greatest structure which would be the universe itself. Everything in the universe would basically be formed from quanta particles or energy, this would include all forces, sub atomic particles, atoms, molecules, planets, solar systems, galaxies and the universe itself. But it is still a continuous task of scientists to work out the scale, how and why everything should fit in a cosmic harmony.

Yours Cosvis.

[N0B0DY]

"We also know that the proton has an internal structures made up of other sub atomic particles like quarks, but these can never be found outside a proton."

I think they would be found if they were replaced with electrons and positrons, with the proton consisting of approx. 917 electrons 918 positrons to render a net charge of +1.

The rest is simply fantastic imo, Cosvis.

[cosvis]

Hi Nobody and all,

I have never seen it mentioned before that proton particles can decay into electrons and positrons, but it might be true, if you have studied it. My understanding of quantum and particle physics is very limited and I have to go by what is in the physic books. But it is certainly an interesting subject, and I feel, it is in this field of science, that we may be able to find an answer to our quest of finding a comprehensive understanding of the physical reality. I wish, I could be young again and had the time to investigate these most fascinating physical reality.

The quark particle is a very interesting sub atomic particle. It is an elementary particle, the fundamental constituent of all hadrons like the baryons, such as neutrons and protons, and mesons. There are six types, or flavours: up, down, top, bottom, strange, and charm. Each of these flavours seem to have three varieties, that are called colours (not visual colours, but only called such to give meaning to the variants); red, yellow, and blue.

Besides the variant number of just quark particles, what is very interesting also is their interactions with each other. This study is called "Quantum chromodynamics (QCD)", and it is a theory in physics describing the interactions of quark particles. In quantum chromodynamics, quarks are considered to interact by exchanging particles called gluons, which carry the strong nuclear force, and whose role it is to 'glue' quarks together. (The Hutchinson Dictionary of Science, quark, quantum chromodynamics)

Linking these theories up with our "The eternal evolving universe" theory, I would speculate that the quark particles are different black holes, held together by strong forces consisting of bundels or robes called 'gluons' made up of quanta particles.

Yours Cosvis.

[N0B0DY]

To keep things supersymmetric with regards to the scattering - http://authors.library.caltech.edu/3172/01/HARpr69.pdf - I would propose more electrons/positrons than LaFreniere does - http://www.glafreniere.com/sa_quarks.htm - but the result implies that photons/gravitons provide most of the mass of the protons and neutrons.

[cosvis]

Hi Nobody and all,

Thank you for the La Freniere, web-site which I found very interesting. If it is true what he is proposing, that quarks are composed of basic electron waves, than it can be true that protons and neutrons are basically made up of electrons and positrons.

When Le Freniere talks about electron waves does he mean electro-magnetic waves or just waves formed from electron particles? In both cases, I suppose, it is basically the same according to my TEEU (The Eternal Evolving Universe) theory, because the basic composite of electrons are quanta particles which are electro-magnetic energy waves or Planck particles.

I found it also interesting when you said that: "..the result implies that photons / gravitons provide most of the mass of the protons and neutrons. Protons and neutrons have non-zero rest mass, whereas photons have zero rest mass because they are always on the move, but since the photons provide most of the mass of the protons and neutrons, they must have some kind of mass which in my theory, I called "virtual mass." I am not sure whether the graviton particle exists.

According to my TEEU theory, the basic stuff of all sub atomic particles or of matter, and of all the different forces in nature, are composed of quanta or Planck particles, which are basically two kinetic anf gravitational energy waves. The work of La Freniere is very interesting because he tries link the waves of different sub atomic partical e.g. the quarks, the electrons, the neutrons, the protons and the gluons.

Yours Cosvis.

[N0B0DY]

Cosvis,

To me the photon and graviton are the same reference, both spin 1, and have the same mass as electrons and positrons. When the electron, or standing center, is on the move it loses mass and gains energy and vice-versa. So the confined masses I propose are the result of electron/positron annihilation and creation - the proton or neutron mass doesn't change.