ToeQuest

We're going on a TOE Quest!


Register

Reply

Grandmaster

Profpat's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,759
60 Profpat has a brilliant futureProfpat has a brilliant futureProfpat has a brilliant futureProfpat has a brilliant futureProfpat has a brilliant futureProfpat has a brilliant futureProfpat has a brilliant future
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Spurl this Post!Reddit!
Quote  
10-31-2007, 04:46 PM
Re: Cyclic Universe

Quote:
Originally Posted by dipayankar View Post
And radiate energy which will create mass and will again radite energy... somewhere I am wrong because I seem to be creating a perpetual machine. Thermodynamics does not permit that..
Sorry Dipayankar;

We'll have to let one of our scientist members answer that one.

Best,

Pat
Reply With Quote
Profpat is offlineReport Post
9th degree Black Belt

Lloyd Gillespie's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,579
Blog Entries: 3
27 Lloyd Gillespie has a spectacular aura about
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Spurl this Post!Reddit!
Quote  
10-31-2007, 04:50 PM
Re: Cyclic Universe

Quote:
Originally Posted by dipayankar View Post
And radiate energy which will create mass and will again radite energy... somewhere I am wrong because I seem to be creating a perpetual machine. Thermodynamics does not permit that..
The universe is a perpetual motion machine, so thermodynamics does allow, just that...

Lloyd
__________________
"To develop the skill of correct thinking is in the first place to learn what you have to disregard. In order to go on, you have to know what to leave out; this is the essence of effective thinking." Kurt Godel
"Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live." Albert Einstein
"The uncertainty principle is an absolute, finite, universal constant." L.G.
"The tick-tick-tick of the cesium atom is a sliding-time-scaler constant of all finite universal motion." L.G.
Reply With Quote
Lloyd Gillespie is offlineReport Post
Grandmaster

Profpat's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,759
60 Profpat has a brilliant futureProfpat has a brilliant futureProfpat has a brilliant futureProfpat has a brilliant futureProfpat has a brilliant futureProfpat has a brilliant futureProfpat has a brilliant future
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Spurl this Post!Reddit!
Quote  
10-31-2007, 04:55 PM
Re: Cyclic Universe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie View Post
The universe is a perpetual machine, so thermodynamics does allow, just that...

Lloyd
Thanks LLoyd;

I guess we have our answer Dipayankar.

Best to all,

Pat
Reply With Quote
Profpat is offlineReport Post
Master

neutralino's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 747
13 neutralino has a spectacular aura about

Awards Showcase
1st Place - Monthly Theme Quiz 
Total Awards: 1

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Spurl this Post!Reddit!
Quote  
10-31-2007, 08:35 PM
Re: Cyclic Universe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie View Post
The universe is a perpetual motion machine, so thermodynamics does allow, just that...

Lloyd
Would you like to explain just how the universe is a perpetual motion machine? The working definition is that a perpetual motion machine creates more energy than is put in. In the universe, energy-momentum conservation implies that the universe is not a perpetual motion machine. And please, don't quote the big bang, as the actual big bang model simply states that the "stuff" in the universe was once a lot more dense than it is today-- NOT that the universe "started with a bang" and matter was created from nothing.
Reply With Quote
neutralino is offlineReport Post
Master

neutralino's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 747
13 neutralino has a spectacular aura about

Awards Showcase
1st Place - Monthly Theme Quiz 
Total Awards: 1

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Spurl this Post!Reddit!
Quote  
10-31-2007, 08:43 PM
Re: Cyclic Universe

Quote:
Originally Posted by dipayankar View Post
Which means that near a black hole, after the event horizon there would be more matter than energy???
You're talking about inside the event horizon, right? Why do you think there's more matter than energy?
Reply With Quote
neutralino is offlineReport Post
Master

neutralino's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 747
13 neutralino has a spectacular aura about

Awards Showcase
1st Place - Monthly Theme Quiz 
Total Awards: 1

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Spurl this Post!Reddit!
Quote  
10-31-2007, 08:45 PM
Re: Cyclic Universe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Profpat View Post
Thanks Neutrelino for your post and for the informative, though somewhat technical, link.
I'm sorry. The other articles I found didn't seem to contain much relevant information, though!
Reply With Quote
neutralino is offlineReport Post
Master

neutralino's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 747
13 neutralino has a spectacular aura about

Awards Showcase
1st Place - Monthly Theme Quiz 
Total Awards: 1

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Spurl this Post!Reddit!
Quote  
10-31-2007, 08:46 PM
Re: Cyclic Universe

Quote:
Originally Posted by dipayankar View Post
And radiate energy which will create mass and will again radite energy... somewhere I am wrong because I seem to be creating a perpetual machine. Thermodynamics does not permit that..
This is a very technical question, and so to answer it, I'd need to know a lot more about the situation you have in mind.
Reply With Quote
neutralino is offlineReport Post
9th degree Black Belt

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,941
27 N0B0DY has a spectacular aura about
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Spurl this Post!Reddit!
Quote  
10-31-2007, 09:08 PM
Re: Cyclic Universe

More energy is created than is put in, Neutralino. Energy is squared upon impact.
Reply With Quote
N0B0DY is offlineReport Post
Master

neutralino's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 747
13 neutralino has a spectacular aura about

Awards Showcase
1st Place - Monthly Theme Quiz 
Total Awards: 1

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Spurl this Post!Reddit!
Quote  
10-31-2007, 09:14 PM
Re: Cyclic Universe

Quote:
Originally Posted by N0B0DY View Post
More energy is created than is put in, Neutralino. Energy is squared upon impact.
Upon impact of what? Could you expand on your mysterious comments?
Reply With Quote
neutralino is offlineReport Post
4th degree Black Belt

Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 472
11 Fluent Piffle will become famous soon enough
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Spurl this Post!Reddit!
Quote  
11-01-2007, 05:33 AM
Re: Cyclic Universe

Quote:
The working definition is that a perpetual motion machine creates more energy than is put in.
Then it is the 'working definition' that is wrong, don't you think?

Nothing is 'put in'. From where is this energy 'put in'? The Cosmos is constantly re-cycled. It is our meagre understanding of it, that is lacking, and so the perceived 'expansion' is a representation of our state of mind regarding how much we currently know.


pif.
__________________
People look after the things they have affection for. It is thus essential that we learn to have affection for the planet that sustains us.

"The sense of threat from every quarter of what is known as the Establishment – which is to say, of modern civilization – is not altogether a put-on or an act for many of these young folk, but an actual condition of soul. The break-off is real, and what is being bombed and blown up outside are actual symbols of interior fears." - Joseph Campbell

Reply With Quote
Fluent Piffle is offlineReport Post
Reply

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:44 AM. Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 VBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys.