Virtual Universe

[JAK]

Okay, Gang, I've got a presentation in a month and a half, and I'm toying with an idea which needs some feedback from others. I am proposing the POSSIBILITY that our universe is virtual. In other words, everything we touch, taste, smell, see, and hear is all a fabrication of advanced, futuristic software. Let me give some background ...

In the late 1960s, an episode of Star Trek, Errand of Mercy, postulated an advance race, the Organians, which were entities of pure energy. Spock opined that they were as "far ahead of us as we are ahead of the amoeba". Okay, tuck this away for a moment.

Next, the movie, The Matrix (1999), suggested the possibility of our existence of altered consciousness while our bodies were used as batteries. Though the likelihood of "battery babies" is slim and none due to entropy, the analogy of our waking state versus our dream state was powerful. Clearly, during typical dreams (lucid dreaming excepted), we forget that we are in bed, and we "swallow" all sorts of nonsense as being perfectly acceptable.

Back to the 21st century, psychology and neuroscience clearly show that everything we perceive through our senses is "digitally modified". For example, images entering your eye are flipped 180 degrees by your eye lens and then projected upside-down on your retinas. But then your mind's image is oriented properly. Other optical illusions abound in the scientific literature.

Meanwhile, in less than 130 years, information technology has leaped from Hollerith cards for census taking to virtual reality systems which are being used more and more as training aids (like flight simulators). And the advances are skyrocketing! Estimates of the age of the universe are between 12 and 20 billion years. If somewhere in the universe another civilization reached our level of technology a mere one million years ago (like the Organians), what kind of virtual reality system might they have??!!

If we are the offspring of this civilization, what might our education be like? It might require hundreds of years or LIFETIMES of education. Every lifetime might be a different course. The subjects might include: patience, compassion, initiative, teamwork - you name it.

And just like in a dream state, we seem to forget our higher state. By forgetting that we are "Organians" (or whatever) we can truly find out who we are. If we knew that "big brother" was watching all the time - and could see our every thought, could we truly experience ourselves? Could we be authentic or truthful - even in our thoughts? Could we truly know what we would do if nobody was watching?

Now, if we are immersed in a virtual system, then every tool we create and every experiment we perform is made of "virtual stuff" and then re-filtered by our own digital mind. Further, if the purpose of this virtual training system is to learn and grow while believing that we are not being watched, then how could we tell?

Plausible? Wacky? You've thought about it, too?

[Graybeard]

Clearly, during typical dreams (lucid dreaming excepted), we forget that we are in bed, and we "swallow" all sorts of nonsense as being perfectly acceptable.

Its plausible, its wacky, and I've thought about it.

Here is a link to the 'DREAM ARGUMENT' in Wiki.

Here is a link to the 'BOLTZMAN'S BRAIN THEORY' in Wiki.

For example, images entering your eye are flipped 180 degrees by your eye lens and then projected upside-down on your retinas. But then your mind's image is oriented properly. Other optical illusions abound in the scientific literature.

What do you call 'oriented properly' ... perhaps just a counter illusion .... lol

Nice thinking outside the square ...

cool bananas ... greg

[labelwench]

Are we seeking collusion on the delusion of the illusion?

'Reality' of the non-virtual kind, is seemingly rife with blood, sweat, tears, happiness & fears and other such distracting redundancies.

Yet it all makes for interesting and thought provoking discussion.......

Regards,

Labelwench

[austintorn@aol.com]

One time Spock deduced that he was in a virtual reality because something he engineered or some chemicals he mixed did not work.

Nor do all things work in our night dreams: words on book pages change and/or have digits interspersed; gravity can fail; cars suddenly have non working brakes; background change; your house is no longer your house, etc., as much is just for show…

However, suppose that the virtual reality was perfect, down to the last detail of simulated atoms and quarks, which it would have to be, to match reality.

This, then, would be quite an advanced projector and probably not computationally possible to build.

Another note about a virtual reality functioning perfectly as would the real is that this tautology renders them to be the same. I don't know if Spock ever said this, but a difference which makes no difference is no difference.

Anyway, better to forget building a projector and try to tap into and record our own lucid dreams so that we can make a great movie that will make millions of dollars.

Now, if we are in a virtual dream, I just hope we don't wake up to see that we are just brains in a vat.

[JAK]

Thanks, Greg!! EXACTLY what I need!

[JAK]

Thanks, Labelwench! Love your poetic response!

[JAK]

...
However, suppose that the virtual reality was perfect, down to the last detail of simulated atoms and quarks, which it would have to be, to match reality.

This, then, would be quite an advanced projector and probably not computationally possible to build.

Another note about a virtual reality functioning perfectly as would the real is that this tautology renders them to be the same. I don't know if Spock ever said this, but a difference which makes no difference is no difference. ...

The system would match perfectly because the perceived universe would be the result of the software. The software would be generating the atoms and quarks (etc.). Thus, whatever we detect or perceive, it would always match perfectly (even glitches, should they arise - a scary thought ... is "entanglement" a glitch?).

A virtual universe is a difference which, I believe, MAKES a difference. The difference is subtle but extremely significant. If we are experiencing a virtual universe and "training" is the purpose, then the importance shows upon exiting the "system". In other words, a virtual universe would imply "life after death" (game over). And rather than only having "3 lives" as in Pacman, our supply of lives might be unlimited. (Assuming our "Organian-like" parents have complete confidence in our ability to learn.) So, "faith" in a virtual universe goes hand-in-hand with faith in an afterlife. Plus, faith that everything you think, do, and say is being "recorded" might encourage each of us to seek our "highest good" at all times.

Further, perhaps our dreams are opportunities where the "universe-ity masters" can tweak our beliefs - beliefs born of neural circuits that are strengthened by use. If neurons participate in multiple circuits (which many or most do), then bolstering a single neuron as it flashes within the image of a car would also bolster its effect in a belief system where it participates, too. Our dream may be of a car, but the effect might be strengthening our self-confidence or taking initiative, etc.

(Wow... this is great! Thanks, guys!)

[austintorn@aol.com]

[JAK]

...

...

Thanks, Austintorn. As Spock would say, "Fascinating." I once awoke inside a dream and was seated at a table in a sparsely furnished room. I immediately explored it to determine the quality of the objects therein. I drew close to the door nearby and examined the molding framed around the doorway. I found, like you, that it appeared exactly as in reality. In fact, I also rubbed my fingers over it and felt the woodgrain. Nothing from my senses could tell that it was a dream and not reality.

So, were our lucid dreams just short dreams within much longer (life-long) dreams??

How could we ever tell? Only after the dream ends??

[sillysally]

This is where I laughed out loud.

Clearly, during typical dreams (lucid dreaming excepted), we forget that we are in bed, and we "swallow" all sorts of nonsense as being perfectly acceptable.

I just never thought of dreaming like that and it's true, bunch of nonsense!

Anyway, I've thought the same thing too, but differently. Unless you expressed it and it went over my head. Let's say we are the Organians, we are all behind our own simulation and basically watching ourselves. Sometimes we have to rewind and delete and that makes dejavu.

You made me think of something new now that I am thinking about dreams. Dreams are the edits.

What I think is funny is big public figures and royalty, they are really funky aliens.