[AntonioLao]

Originally Posted by harmonygirl I mean, we can all agree...Also, don't you need motion for time?

localized agreement analogous to laws for a particular nation or even a particular state. In the state of Texas, we are not allowed state tax deduction of individual income. The motion of time is more abstract angular motion or displacement not linear motion as that of distance and length displacements.

[harmonygirl]

Antonio, I wasn't speaking of the motion of time (which I am not sure exist) but that time is irrelevant until there is motion, or perhaps change is a better word, because then you have the need to reconcile 2 different states.

[AntonioLao]

Originally Posted by harmonygirl which I am not sure exist

But we could imagine for a second, or for a minute, or for an hour, or for a day, or for a year, or for a century that a universal time axis exists. Furthermore each and every object whether living or not possesses its unique time axis. The angle subtended between two given axes determines the elapsed time interval between them. Our time axes is subtended locally to the time axis of the earth or even to some more immediate axes which I am not sure of like the food I ate few minutes ago which was a bagel with its own time axis that merged with the time axis inside my stomach.

[harmonygirl]

Antonio, this time axis, would it only exist in this dimension?

[AntonioLao]

Originally Posted by harmonygirl this time axis, would it only exist in this dimension?

Time axis is by its definition one dimensional so I think it does exist in our 4D space and time, 3 of space and 1 of time. But what I am not sure of is where exactly the one dimensional time axis is? Is it in the x-axis, or the y-axis, or the z-axis, or the t-axis? Or maybe it just moves around alternately among these 4 axes?

[harmonygirl]

If we accept the notion of a time axis, I don't think it would be an x,y or z axis. It would have to observe from a different realm. I don't think time moves but motion makes it necessary because then you have a comparator and need to reconcile them.

[baudrunner]

If we throw away the concept of time altogether what reference would we use to extablish relative existential frameworks of existence? Take the case of a space faring race that has been travelling throughout the Universe for so long that they have no historical recollection or record of a past on a home planet, and where space is home to them. All they would have is observational references and how would they reconcile the changing dimensions of the residual effects of a super nova or the space around a black hole? Would time even matter to them?

[harmonygirl]

Interesting hypothesis Baud. I would suspect time wouldn't matter in the sense of experiencing no day/night, no month/year, etc. They might exist on a conceptual level (as residual habit) with no actual grounding in their reality, but simply as a convenient way to order their actions.

[baudrunner]

I imagine that it is possible that we are programmed by the cycles of the days and nights to sleep and that has made sleep necessary for our physiological and psychological health. It also occurs to me that if we lived in outer space and that we were not so programmed that we would be very, very different. The echidnae, spiny ant eaters, do not have REM cycles. Research has taught us that REM sleep is when we are assimmilating and correlating data and cleaning up our RAM as it were, but the spiny ant eater does not need that because it has such a massive pre-frontal cortex that if ours were as large in proportion it would drape over our chests, so it does this when it is awake. So it seems that aliens who know nothing but outer space and have no temporal identity might look like super geniuses but they might be only minimally smarter than a spiny ant eater. I would be wary of that if ever I were to meet one.

[harmonygirl]

as would I. but I wonder if instead of needing more brain matter, if it wouldn't be great if we could simply use more of what we already have?