chemical clock - living timepiece

[AntonioLao]

This is a discussion about the existence of subjective time in contrast to objective time. Some ideas about chemical clocks can be found at the following sites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_clock and http://www.maths.nottingham.ac.uk/personal/pmzjb1/clock.pdf. In some research circle the chemical clock is considered as a more accurate clock than its mechanical counterpart of spring, pendulum and crystal.

[Guille]

Maybe both times are needed to explain the universe. The objective time as the dimension, the entropic time. What, or better said, where, is the subjective time, anyway? Is it in conscioussness, or in culture, or in subconscioussness, or in nature, or in communication (language plays a main role, as the notion of time in it is continuous, we say things happen after and before, and we have tenses for the verbs, etz), or is all time, subjective, objective, multijective, projective, rejective... An illusion, in constant representation of no expression?

[harmonygirl]

I have been struggling with the notion of time. I just don't know if there is objective time. Subjective time, yes, because we have motion which necessitates time. What would objective time be?

[AntonioLao]

where, is the subjective time, anyway?

The subjective time controls the aging process of living things and different species possess different subjective times give or take a few years.

What would objective time be?

Objective time is the time agreed by everyone as indicated by the acceptance of a calendar and lately I keep adjusting my wristwatch in order to synchronize it to the train and bus schedules.

[harmonygirl]

but Antonio, doesn't the descriptor 'objective' imply existence without reference to us? I mean, we can all agree the moon is made of green cheese, but that doesn't make it so, no? Also, don't you need motion for time? I can't seem to wrap my head around the notion of objective time, ie existing without motion. Maybe you can help?

[TinyTree]

Objective time is the time agreed by everyone as indicated by the acceptance of a calendar and lately I keep adjusting my wristwatch in order to synchronize it to the train and bus schedules.

What if one of the groups is subject to time dilation?

Who would arbitrate as to who has the correct time?

I can see it being a hilarious fight- who has the correct time, the leaders who flew in their spaceship near the speed of light to avoid a temporary earth problem, or the plebians left behind who handle the disaster and now are on a different time line?

[baudrunner]

Objective time would refer to time as a stable frame of reference, never mind that some perceive time as "moving forward" we really are all here always now. It is the same for everybody according to the time on their clocks which can be converted to the clock time for anywhere on the planet without going there and it's still really the same time.

Subjective time would be the time taken for a chemical reaction so I don't know where the idea came from that chemical clocks are necessarily more accurate because if you move some reactions to the window sill the sunlight speeds them up.

The comparison then is with time as a standard frame of reference which is the same for everybody occupying the same reality (not flying or on a spaceship or on a train even) and time as variable and inconsistant in which the same event in the same reality can be seen to occur at diferent rates over different occurances depending on the conditions in which the event takes place.

In other words still, we could take a twenty minute walk in the summer or in the winter and the walk would take exactly twenty minutes of objective time but if we took a chemical clock with us each time the reaction would occur more rapidly in summer than in winter so its time would be subjective.

I think that is as close as one can come to describing objective and subjective time.

[mkirkpatrick]

What of chemical reactions in the brain when,say,asleep,and we are dreaming.
These are I believe electro-chemical reactions,when dreaming,the dreamer could
think that he or she,was experiencing an event in an objective way,it is only
when awaking,that it then becomes subjective! In dreams,and this has happened to me many times,years have gone by in a hour or so!Are we then
living timepieces?
further an interesting idea,would be,Lucid dreaming!Being aware and being self-
conscious,while asleep,would that be,objective,or subjective?
What do you think,folks.

kindest regards michael.

[harmonygirl]

interesting counterplay on the notions of objective and subjective, Michael. I like Baud's explanation, it's the only way to have objective time, as I see it because it accepts a stable frame of reference. This is the point at which my willing suspesion of disbelief must be active, because I question the notion of a frame of reference that would enable us to have objective time. Your a good questions to ponder, Michael, in the question of overall objectivity and subjectivity.

[baudrunner]

You intuition is leading you straight to relativity theory HG, because beyond the dependencies that create our objective frame of reference, ie the sun, the earh and moon, we have dynamic time and no frame of reference because time is not fixed beyond the confines of the objective indicator of the sundial on this planet earth at 1 G.