[SinJin]

I think it's important to look back at the history of everything - life, matter, the universe, and find a pattern or common path everything has been taking. From the beginning of the universe up until now, things have been getting more and more complex. But why? Is it the arrow of time, the way entropy unfolds and increases, that cause things to become more and more complex? It seems like there is a constant push/pull going on between the laws of physics and matter, a struggle to survive. Is it survival that pushes everything forward, the ultimate goal? I think you have to question why consciousness came about. I don't believe consciousness is some sort of magic handed down to us, nor do I believe it is some sort of mystical energy that exists seperate from everything else. I think consciousness is no different than an ice crystal, or a leaf, or even a stone. Only it is much more complex, able to receive input, order it, and interpret it on levels much more advance than a leaf can, say, receive sunlight. But it is still no different, only more complex. But why would nature evolve matter into such a complex form. Looking back at the history of life, it seems that the answer is survival - the same way the fish was able to leave the water and breath air. But why did nature take that next step, and continue taking these steps to lead us where we are today? Maybe it's because a leaf that can't make complex decisions will die when the planet it lives on is destroyed. If matter never reached the point where it could start taking itself apart and reorganizing itself at an increasing, logical rate, then it would die out with the death of the universe. If survival is the ultimate thing that pushed us towards developing a conscience, then what's next? I think it would expand beyond surviving the elements and surviving our planet - the next step would be surviving the death of our star, and ultimately the death of the universe. Does this apply just to humans though? No, rather it applies to all matter in general - matter "wants" to survive as long as possible, and it simply evolved into humans to help reach that goal.

[mkirkpatrick]

Sinjin,very interesting concept,where are we going?Indeed some would say,to hell in a hand-basket!You say matter wants to survive,and evovled into humans to further that
cause,I could do along with that,Evolution is doing this very thing.

You then suggested that prehaps survival pushes everything forward,I think that what
pushes everything forward,is the expansive nature of the evolutionary cycle.

Survival though to me implies a cessation of lifefullness,ie,you may not survive,(your dead),I see all expressions of life as eternal,and what we "mistakenly" call death,is none
other than change!exchanging one expression,for another.as one trades in ones car for
another one (body).


regards michael.

[Mr. Nobody]

The next step is already here. We are becoming creatures of and for societies and perhaps consciousness is an evolutionary curiosity, discharded many millenia from now when we live and act as one super organism not unlike the you out of your biological cells.
Independant and true freedom (neither in action nor in thought) never existed. All is subject to evolution and as long as creative thinking and autonom consciousness serves us in the game of adaptation, we will retain it, but will we need it in the future? Are we not evolving into a human ant hill where every member has a destinct role and fulfills his duties for the survival of the hive (culture) and is dispensible

[SinJin]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nobody The next step is already here. We are becoming creatures of and for societies and perhaps consciousness is an evolutionary curiosity, discharded many millenia from now when we live and act as one super organism not unlike the you out of your biological cells. Independant and true freedom (neither in action nor in thought) never existed. All is subject to evolution and as long as creative thinking and autonom consciousness serves us in the game of adaptation, we will retain it, but will we need it in the future? Are we not evolving into a human ant hill where every member has a destinct role and fulfills his duties for the survival of the hive (culture) and is dispensible

I agree that the next step is already here. But what if we are just passing it on to something else. In other words, at each step in the evolution of the universe something is passed on to the next entity, and then becomes "food" for that new level of evolution. An example would be the monkey evolving into the human - the torch of evolution, so to speak, was passed from the monkey to the human, and humans then become the ones to further evolve, until they pass it on to something else. In doing so, everything below humans are now tools the humans use to continue surviving and thus evolving. And the same thing will apply to the next step.

So when you mention that we as a species are becoming more autonomous, perhaps we are getting ready to pass the torch on to something else. I'm tempted to say that maybe that next step is technology. Instead of building things to further our survival, so that we can reach and evolve to that next step, we've simply built the next step.

[Mr. Nobody]

Technology could be the right answer, if you frame it within an emergence of something still bigger. I truly think that group action and group thinking is what presents the real next step. Technology will enhance that drive even more by acting as "one". What I call the "societies of semi autonom entities" will give way to one surviving culture, the culture of technology.
It appears that the internet, once it acquires consciousness on some level would be man from ape of the next evolutionary leap.
The matrix is upon us