A Woman in a 3 Piece Suit & A Man in an Evening Gown

[RascalPuff]

"In a 2006 column, I got a question from a waiter who did not know how to address women customers properly. "Certainly no one wants to be called 'Ma'am,'" he wrote, "but it seems odd to address a woman with a husband as 'Miss.'" I said that "ma'am" it ought to be, and got a slew of reader letters about it, roughly half pro- and half anti-ma'am.

(This puts wait staff in a bloody awful position, and I'm strongly of the opinion that they ought to be cut slack--I've met women who are offended by "ma'am," by "miss," by "girls," and by "guys." If you're called something you don't like, either say nothing, or correct the server and then leave a nice tip so they'll know you weren't mad. The vagaries of the English language is not the fault of wait staff.)

But it's hard to think of the dislike of "ma'am" as being anything other than sexism compounded by ageism. "Ma'am" means a woman in authority, a woman due respect. Why would you rather be a cute, nonthreatening little "miss" when you could be a commanding "ma'am"? And for women who feel that "ma'am" implies age--well, what's wrong with that? Age brings a host of physical annoyances, but it also brings self-knowledge, wisdom, authority, achievement.

I'm sure the writers of "Battlestar Galactica" intend to show female equality by addressing the women as "sir." But all they are really doing is saying that authority is inherently male, that it is incompatible with femininity. I want Starbuck--officer-assaulting, insubordinate, cigar-smoking, best-pilot-in-the-fleet Starbuck--to be a "ma'am." And if that causes anyone dissonance, well, so fracking be it.

Men are sirs. Women are ma'ams. I am a woman: I am a ma'am.

Own your power. Own your age. You've earned it, ma'am."

- Robin Abrahams, Ph.D, Psychology; author of the 'Miss Conduct' column in the Boston Globe.
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Q. Why is "Yes Sir" acceptable - in some military contexts - in deference to a woman, but "Yes Ma'am" not so to a man?

A. Refer above blog, by Dr. Robin Abrahams
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"A woman in a three piece suit is 'chic', but, a man in an evening gown is fired(!)."
(Draw your own conclusions.)

- K. B. Robertson (aka RascalPuff), author of 'On Misogyny'.

Post Script: Of course 'Misogyny' means 'hatred of women', and, is of Greek language derivation.
On the other hand, there is no Greek (or Latin) word for 'man hating'.

[labelwench]

Good one, Rascal.

Perhaps some of the misunderstanding around the use of Ma'am, is that the term 'Madam' is often associated with the Matron who presides over the operation of a 'house of ill repute'.

It is also fair to comment, that all males are born into a more commanding opportunity than are women, in all cultures, although there is far more opportunity for my sex in North America in the past few decades.

Women all have 'power', which I differentiate from 'authority', in that we have the power over our own mind and body, and the bringing of new life into the world, unless taken without consent. By 'authority', such usually manifests as direct influence over others. Women also have much authority in the raising of our young, and should not relinquish it in favor of a career, in my opinion.

Better to select as mate, a man who values the power and authority inherent within woman, a man who will commit to providing for their offspring and enable the offspring to make viable contribution, by investing his time and knowledge also.

Recognize also, that some woman are warriors, and will forsake the opportunity of motherhood to venture into the arenas dominated by men, to effect change for their sisters and brothers.

[AntonioLao]

What about addressing women as: young lady, lady, or old lady? And for men: young man, man, or old man?

[labelwench]

What about addressing women as: young lady, lady, or old lady? And for men: young man, man, or old man?

Careful, Fella.

Who are you calling an 'Old Lady', lol....

There may be some silver threads in the tresses but I still turn heads in dresses....

Or jeans....

The rare occasion when I have cause to wear a two piece swimsuit....

Even my 'birthday suit'.......

And that's quite enough naughtiness.

My apologies, Rascal, Sir.

'Twas my human nature revealled.....

[austintorn@aol.com]

What about addressing women as: young lady, lady, or old lady? And for men: young man, man, or old man?

Antonio, women do not get old.

When men are old, they are said to be distinguished, elder statesman, or some such great term.


gender biological: male/fem
gender informal: guy/gyno
gender formal: man/wom

gender service: sir/maam or siram

gender single informal: bachelor/femgle
gender single formal: Mist/Miss

gender married: Misser/Missis

gender child: boy/girl
gender child formal: Master/Mystie


When Gender is Unknown or Irrelevant

When gender is unknown,
Some pronouns can’t be said,
So for he or she, use “e”,

As for him or her, it’s “erm”,
And for his or hers, use “eir”.

As for a singular you, that is it;
For the plural, use “you-all”.

[AntonioLao]

Who are you calling an 'Old Lady'

The person or persons in mind would be Katherine Hepburn, Myrna Loy, or Maureen O'Hara. The first two are now dead ladies, I think?

[labelwench]

I found this to be an interesting article in regards to attire and the genders. LW

It's a sad fact of Western society that we frown on men wearing skirts in public. Generally speaking, men who admire the aesthetics of skirts and dresses are forced to don trousers or shorts in order to go about their everyday business in the world. It's pretty rare that you see a male lawyer, or doctor or teacher gadding about the workplace in a frock. It's so ingrained in our society that we actually just take it for granted, but lets think about that for just a minute or two, shall we?

If we reversed the roles and informed women that they were only allowed to wear skirts, then I can guarantee you that there would be riots in the streets, but, gentle lambs that they are, men meekly accept their prescribed uniform, formal suit, business suit, jeans and shirt, shorts and t shirt with barely a murmur of dissent. And to think they say it's a man's world, huh?

Some men might sniff and say "I don't want to wear skirts and dresses anyway." But I ask you, is that even really the point? Is not the point more that you couldn't even if you wanted to? We walk around thinking we're 'free', but in reality our freedoms are unimaginably limited, even in ways that quite obviously don't matter in the slightest.

Author's Note: I'm glad society is essentially a timid hypocritical construct held together by bonds of fear and violence, if it wasn't I'd have very little to write about.

Anyway, until the revolution arrives, and men are free to wear whatever they want to wear, there are some social back doors which allow men to go out wearing a skirt or a dress (though you still won't be able to call it a skirt or dress I'm afraid, that's going a little too far.)

Your Three Keys To Skirt Success

Be Middle Eastern or Asian

Middle Easterners and Asians get a free pass on the skirt thing. We're suspicious of them as Westerners anyway, they speak foreign languages, and they look different from us, which is a sure fire sign that they're up to something. Plus we're usually too busy invading their countries to worry about what they're wearing. We usually help them accesorize whatever they have on with a tasteful hood and some shiny electrodes

Because God Told You To

Alternatively if you are unable to change your race at whim, you could become a monk or priest. Monks and priests are allowed to wear dresses to their heart's delights, because they have the big 'G' on their side, and nobody argues with God.

Become Goth, Emo, or Punk

These subcultures all get away with their male members wearing skirts in public, mostly because people fear them too much to say anything about it. (Sometimes that whole 'bonds of fear' thing can really work for you.)

This has probably been one of the more 'angry' articles I've written in a while, but you know what? We're all in chains of our own making, and each subsequent generation buys into these same social morays, never stopping to think about them, too self obsessed and worrying about what the rest of the world will think to realize that they are making themselves prisoners in their own lives. And while we worry about these stupid superficial things that don't matter a damn, incredible evil is done in our names and under our noses.

After well over three thousand years of civilization is it not time that we freed ourselves? Can we not let the man wear a pair of panties, a dress, a bra, a tutu if he wants to and perhaps start worrying about the truly important things in this world?

[labelwench]

From our military history (or folklore) a look at the kilted military men who became known as 'The Ladies From Hades'.

The Ladies From Hell
By bshistorian
There’s an important difference between history and tradition. Both are ways of seeing and presenting our collective past, but tradition is not bound to comply with either objectivity or historical accuracy. Nowhere is this creative and imagination spin on the past more prevalent and important than in the annals of the world’s military forces. Tradition and history are both key binding elements that keep groups of otherwise diverse individuals together with a common purpose and sense of continuity. It can be very difficult to separate fact from fiction, especially once a particular meme has been written as regimental history. Tradition also helps soldiers deal with the difficult jobs they have to do; not least, killing other people and not being killed themselves. Fighting men like to be assured that they are both on the side of good, and more than capable of facing whatever hardships lie ahead. Because soldiers very often have more in common with their enemies individually and culturally than it might be healthy for them to admit, the bare bones of objective history won’t always do in the context of regimental and unit history. Which brings me to the subject at hand – nicknames. Specifically, the name “The Ladies From Hell” as applied to the kilted units of the British and Canadian armies in the First World War (another claim for the Canadians can be found here). Clearly this is meant to paint the men in question as something out of the ordinary; soldiers so tough that they can cross-dress and still be shining examples of fighting manhood.

http://bshistorian.wordpress.com/200...ies-from-hell/

[Bogie]

Careful, Fella.

Who are you calling an 'Old Lady', lol....

There may be some silver threads in the tresses but I still turn heads in dresses....

Or jeans....

The rare occasion when I have cause to wear a two piece swimsuit....

Even my 'birthday suit'.......

And that's quite enough naughtiness.

My apologies, Rascal, Sir.

'Twas my human nature revealled.....

I don't suppose pics will be forthcoming ...

[labelwench]

I don't suppose pics will be forthcoming ...

When the next occasion for 'full turn out gear' arises, I will see what I can do regarding a photographer. Might be a while ........