Time And Relativity

[G_burnett]

I am happy we have the return of such a distinguished gentleman as your self Dave back in relativity here for such enjoyment of time, personally i have been missing you as a few in the idea thread were pulling there hair out to Max having a fine post or two.

I agree that true science can not be down played to importance ... the most recent developement i have found after much time and relativity is indeed to you feeler of hair color of Anna.

After years of trying to figure out why men are drawn to blonds there is now the clue that hydrogen peroxide being unable to be countered by the human system is what indeed makes our hair go gray ... men therefor have an innate want of an older woman the cause of liking blonds and strive for the mother image as i have personally thought for years now the standard.

Graham

[labelwench]

Gentlemen,

The course between your home and your work is not a precision environment suitable for performing measurements of time, speed, nor distance; the instruments you’re using are not suitable either. You just need better science!

I’m assuming you are not a blond!

Correct on all counts. In regards to the time/distance perception, night shift stress includes micro-sleeps. These intervals are so short that the person experiencing them is not aware of them,(not the same as falling asleep at the wheel), but they do impact one's interpretation of their environment.

Labelwench is one of the interpreter species, born brunette, presently chestnut, will eventually become a natural blonde.

men therefor have an innate want of an older woman the cause of liking blonds and strive for the mother image as i have personally thought for years now the standard.

Graham

As politically correct a reason as I've heard to date. Full marks, I grant thee. I had always wondered myself what the attraction was, given that, in the dark, all cats are gray.

[austintorn@aol.com]

And thus it came to pass, that "Woe Unto Man" was conveniently shortened to "Woman".

Adam actually said "Wo, Man!" for she was such a stunningly beautiful creature.

[dleviwing]

Blond cats are softer,
but they tend to stray;
brunette cats are great pets,
they tend to stay.
45 years with this once brunette cat of mine,
I know all cats are silver,
when given the time.


I think we're getting a bit off topic form my original intent for this thread 3 years ago!

[G_burnett]

..... 3 years ago!

But Dave Sir ... is not time just a relativity thing?lol

~kind regards g

[dleviwing]

But Dave Sir ... is not time just a relativity thing?lol

~kind regards g

NO Graham, it's an "ABSOLUTE"; Only our "MEASURE" of time is "RELATIVE".

BTW: only children, salesmen, and policemen call me "sir"; if you're not one of them, call me Dave.

[G_burnett]

NO Graham, it's an "ABSOLUTE"; Only our "MEASURE" of time is "RELATIVE".

BTW: only children, salesmen, and policemen call me "sir"; if you're not one of them, call me Dave.

Thank you for the reply Dave and i stand corrected in my early morning attempted silliness .. only our "measure" of time is "relative ".. the noun version of word use.

Come to think of it is it not the same in other measure the boundaries of define, the seconds, hours ... SI units one and all?

Why asked is that I am on the ponder that the define is limiting not to say the relativity is not there to platform one might be on ... just they seem so encompassing to a limited view?

the first example i am in of the magnetic field extend i have been trying to explain as a frozen state of charge of a transient state of the electron with polar extend measure of permanency a standard of define in a permanent magnet.

others are having a hard time to follow what i am trying to say in this i think because of in the box thinking to my maybe to simple posts and conclusions with sage.

kind regards g.

[labelwench]

I think we're getting a bit off topic form my original intent for this thread 3 years ago!

My apologies, Dave. Perhaps we may combine time, relativity, cats, and suitable instruments of measure by means of the following article which I submit for your contemplation.

Or I could quiz my black cat, Darth, for his perspective on time and relativity, which, judging by his activity level, may, or may not, be a short piece of study.

From Physicsworld.com

Schrodinger's cat comes into view
In 1935 Erwin Schrodinger proposed a famous thought experiment in which a cat was somehow both alive and dead at the same time. Schrodinger was attempting to demonstrate the limitations of quantum mechanics: quantum particles such as atoms can be in two or more different quantum states at the same time but surely, he argued, a classical object made of a large number of atoms, such as a cat, could not be in two different states. Now Jonathan Friedman and co-workers at the State University of New York (SUNY) in Stony Brook have demonstrated a macroscopic Schrodinger cat state for the first time (Nature 406 43). In their experiment a superconducting device is placed in a quantum superposition of two states: one that corresponds to a current flowing through the device in a clockwise direction, and another that corresponds to an anti-clockwise current.

In his original thought experiment, Schrodinger imagined that a cat is locked in a box, along with a radioactive atom that is connected to a vial containing a deadly poison. If the atom decays, it causes the vial to smash and the cat to be killed. When the box is closed we do not know if the atom has decayed or not, which means that it can be in both the decayed state and the non-decayed state at the same time. Therefore, the cat is both dead and alive at the same time - which clearly does not happen in classical physics.

The SUNY-Stony Brook experiment uses superconducting quantum interference devices (SQUIDs). These are ring-shaped devices in which persistent currents, made of billions of pairs of electrons, can circulate in either a clockwise or an anti-clockwise direction without decaying. Their device is made from niobium, which is superconducting at the temperatures of 40 millikelvin used in the experiment, and aluminium oxide, which acts as a barrier. A palladium-gold shield protects the device from interactions with the environment that would otherwise wipe out the quantum superpositions being studied.

The system can be represented as a potential well with two minima, both of which contain several bound states, separated by a barrier. Friedman and co-workers start with a current of about 1 microamp flowing in, say, the clockwise direction. Next they illuminate the SQUID with microwaves which excite the system to a clockwise state with higher energy. The system can now tunnel from the clockwise state into the anti-clockwise state, and back.

The question is essentially whether the system remembers or forgets its quantum state as it tunnels. To answer this the Stony Brook team measures the probability of finding the current flowing in the anti-clockwise direction as the shape of the double-well potential is changed. The results are exactly as predicted by assuming that the system is in a macroscopic superposition of states. The difference between the two states corresponds to a current of 2 to 3 microamps or a magnetic moment of 10 billion Bohr magnetons, which is "truly macroscopic" according to Friedman and co-workers.

At this point, I should paraphrase the words of graham and request that if you understand the above article, please explain it to me.

[G_burnett]

"Sage, wake up." ""Dave told me Time is absolute.."
"So? .. is it not the nature of time?" "Time just keeps going on and on ..?"
"I don't think so Sage."
"Why not?"
"Some time for some is different."
"How so?"
"When we approach the speed of light, those experiencing the ride has time slow down for them from our perspective but in their perspective it is all normal."
"Yea that is relativity graham, did he not explain that to you."
"Yes but we can freeze time passage for ... near forever ...barring unforeseeable effect on the process Sage"
"you are kind out date with that one Graham ... nice try, but i have a freezer."
"Ahh, but can your frozen veggies do work for you while it is frozen?"
"Sure, it can make a real cool cease."
"Yes but your veggies will thaw out so it does not count."
"Then I would have to say no Graham."
"I can freeze something and have it do work without losing it freezing sage."
"hmmm... have you been revisiting The Harvard Gazette again graham?"
"No, the function ability value of frozen light still involves losing the freeze."
"You are splitting hairs graham.. tell me what you did."
"It is not so much what i did or can do sage it is understanding what is not a define in a natural or created event that is just a freeze."
"Wizzalfrizzaldrizzal ... speak English Graham or i will have to call labelwench and her horse again to deal with you."
"yea .. right Sage, you liked it being that tongue lingered in the ear you call home as much as it did." "It was a bout time you had a bath too, lol..."
"Ok, ok! ... just tell me."
"No you hurt my feelings sage, maybe later ..."
".........is it later yet Graham?"
"No, I will let you know. go back to sleep, .. I hear a coffee in the stars calling my name .."

[dleviwing]

No apologies needed labelwench; nothing wrong with putting some casual humor into an otherwise boring topic. It’s nice to just have fun once in a while.

I’m assuming that you’re not looking for the text book answer to your question for that would be just as confusing as the article. I’ll try to give you a plain Canadian, Australian, American, or English explanation; those are the only four languages that I can speak, read or write.

First let’s take all the mysticism and hype out of our Quantum Mechanics picture. QM is just an analytical methodology base primarily on statistical analysis; probability and uncertainty. The “Schrödinger Cat” brain fart is simply saying we do not have any way of knowing the “ABSOLUTE” value of any measurement and until we perform that measurement, we cannot know anything about the state of what we are measuring. With the poor cat, there is a 50/50 chance that he is alive and a 50/50 chance that he is dead before taking that first look into the box. If you look into the box a thousand times and the cat is alive then you can predict that the next time you look in the box there is a high probability the cat will be alive even though that exact 1001 observation is still 50/50. The problem with this analogy is that if you look in the box just once and the cat is dead, then all observation after that will have a high probability that the cat is dead but with a small uncertainty that the cat was alive due to faking his death or that an act of god took place while you were not looking. Since the god factor is highly improbable, I would bet that he would be faking.

The difference between the two states corresponds to a current of 2 to 3 microamps or a magnetic moment of 10 billion Bohr magnetons, which is "truly macroscopic" according to Friedman and co-workers.

Since every electron has a magnetic moment of 1 Bohr magneton, the measure of current and the measure of magnetic moments are simply a count of the number of electrons. The only difference is current is a dynamic quantity (electrons moving past a point per second) and magnetic moments are static quantities (electrons per a given volume). When the magnetic moments seem to occur within a volume too small for the number of electrons involved, Quantum Superposition is assumed; all the electrons merge to a single volume as if they occupy the same point in space.

The biggest problem in explaining QM is that it’s a gauge theory and purely a mathematical treatment of the quantitative measurements (dimensions). Though we do not have any way to know what actual physical interactions are taking place, our equations predict the probability that we will obtain a specific value for a parameter. These equations use what is called “complex and imaginary numbers”. (based on the value of the square root of -1) Needless to say this does not translate well into common everyday language or in my opinion, not even into common sense. If you google “Quantum Superposition”, which is the key to understanding this article, I’m sure you can find much better info that what I can provide on this forum.