IC,
If you have any hope of convincing David or Lloyd of your viewpoint, you might want to do as I suggested so that they may understand you more fully. Be at peace
Mr.Waldrope;
I don’t know about Lloyd, but I cannot be convinced by any ecclesiastic belief system until it presents empirically accepted evidence of its truth; it then becomes pure science; something believers will never understand.
I find it strange that people who refute science methodology tend to post their religious and metaphysical beliefs in forums intended for scientific discussion. What you are doing is preaching; just like IC and a few other members tend to do.
I am certainly not preaching. I merely wanted to point out to IC that he might want try to put his ideas into a more empirical language. As I have stated before, I believe very strongly in the empirical process and I see that (other than things like the uncertainty principal, the fact that observing something affects it, and such) there is no empirical evidence that concepts such as the role that conciousness plays in physics has any real empirical meaning in the world of science. (at this time)
I agree with IC regarding the idea that there is more to fundamental reality than science has or can reveal.( I don't know that he stated this as such but is implied I think)
I agree with you that objective empirical science, in lieu of hard evidence, cannot say that somthing "IS". (same)
I would just like to see more open communication between these two areas and less animosity.
The answer to the TOE lies in the exploration of what is possible; whether that be empirical or philosophical. It is just possible that something uttered by IC (or anyone of a philosophical bent) might (I say MIGHT) just lead someone like yourself to a new insightful way of thinking about the empirical development of the TOE.
Many, if not most, great scientific breakthroughs have come from thinking "out of the box". So, as I said to IC; just relax... and try to keep an open mind.
When I first joined this blog, Lloyd asked me if I had any ideas on how to bridge metaphysics with physics.
My reply is this," I think that it could be very important to do this. It is all about language and semantics. This can only be worked out if each camp is willing to listen to the other without predjudice. Each may offer the other new ways to think about the nature of the universe."
The stuff in our world is made of matter—electrons and quarks,—whatever it is that we eventually call bottommost. The form does not matter for now—it may be a field, actual stuff, or some swirling energy that gives the appearance of solidity, or a vibrating string’s projection. Even if matter is an illusion or a projection, there would still be something behind it. What’s important is that it would the most fundamental and absolute substance, so perhaps this is what we should call it instead of “matter”.
One current theory is that
The void pulsates in a structured sequence.
A field is present throughout space immense,
Out of which all particles must condense—
Occurring where the field’s extremely intense.
Atoms are just bundles of inertia,
Knots in the field and fabric of space;
Yet matter defines the structure of space…
The Yin is in the Yang, and vice-versa!
Another theory, or perhaps it is the same one, that I like for light waves is that light propagates via an aether, it speed being dependent on something like the time it takes some kind of dipoles to align. I know it sounds vague, but it does suggest why there is a limit to the speed of light and why it has different speeds in other mediums.
Prana =Qi=breath=apparent fundamental energy is just part of that. The fundamental truth is unknowable.
If you have any hope of convincing David or Lloyd of your viewpoint, you might want to do as I suggested so that they may understand you more fully. Be at peace
Dr.Waldrope, The T.O.E. is not dependent on the understanding or acceptance of the LG's or dleviwing's on this forum or in this world. I hope some people on this forum and in this world are capable of forming their own opinions without being led by the ego's of LG ,dleviwing, and their kind.
My posts are not theory - through the practice of meditation (i.e. concentration on the single eye) i have experienced the stopping of thought and separating from the breathing process or prana energy and in the process reconnecting with the Sound - Current or inner fundamental source of all energy.
You say, that the fundamental truth is unknowable, although we cannot know It - we can and do merge in and become one with It. The fundamental energy is not a part of Prana - Prana is a spin off created by the slowing and stopping of Pure Coherent Light i.e. the fundamental energy in this physical-material universe.
The process of thinking is the means whereby we stop the Coherent Light (I.e. our attention) which is then embedded in each thought which contains the whole in-formation of the material universe in a holographic imprint 50 million times smaller (the microcosm) and we project these thoughts like an animated picture show on the screen of space - a 3d hologram in which there is no actual object only interference waves our brain decodes and sees as the physical-material universe (the macrocosm). And, our conscious awareness is imprisoned in these thought because we are creating them. I.e. the inexorable "Law of Karma" or "As You Sow - So Shall You Reap." "As You Think - So You Become."
The matter in each of these thoughts is inert and lifeless - our attention as Coherent Light animates and brings to life each of these thoughts individually and we think that the pictures are alive and do not recognize the Infinite Consciousness that is animating them and bringing them to life.
The fundamental energy in the spiritual planes of higher frequencies and higher consciousness is the Sound-Current as the source of all Light i.e. consciousness. The fundamental energy is the "Word of God" i.e. Infinite Conscious Awareness and Infinite Love. It is composed of the Light & Sound together and that is the fundamental energy of Life wherein Light is Infinite Conscious Awareness and Sound is the Spirit or Life Itself and both are together as Unchangeable Permanence or Immortal Life.
This physical-material universe and physical body is composed of the energy of particles and waves known as Prana energy or the energy of breathing wherein the sound - current as Prana energy is nothing but sound as energy arising out of matter. Sound as energy arising out of matter is imprinted only with the in-formation of matter and squeezed into a space 50 million times smaller as in the Lene Hau Harvard experiment.
When and if we turn the attention i.e. the Pure Coherent Light back within the eye-focus where the two eyes become one we increase the frequencies of the light frozen as matter there (i.e. stored thoughts as memories) and it changes them from matter to Pure Coherent Light again. Just like it happens in the Lene Hau experiments at Harvard.
This is not theory - i have experienced this Light released from matter through focusing my attention in the eye-focus and holding it there fully concentrated - and the result was not only a stopping of thought - but a rising above body consciousness - and experiencing myself as a conscious spirit separate from and independent of the physical body. I then was aware that this conscious spirit was the source of life in all creation spiritual as well as material.
There will never be a T.O.E. for materialists such as Lg, dleviwing, and their kind - to them materialism is the T.O.E. - and that is ridiculous. All matter dies and life rises up out of the matter and takes another material form until it rises above matter and comes to know its true Self i.e. in the body there is a separate entity called spirit , which is unchangeable Permanence. The Alpha & Omega !
Last edited by dleviwing; 03-16-2007 at 05:59 PM.
Reason: missing end quote tag.
ic, nice fairy tale___been there, done that___it ain't the way. I think you should go to Uraguay and study with the Shwar Indian Shamans___they seem to know much more about spirits, than the East does. They've been curing their sicknesses and injuries for centuries, with their drug induced internal flight journey's wisdom visions, and invisable darts. I think that'd be a good place for ya... Another tribe in S.America believes in three souls; 1.natural; 2.acquired; 3.avenger___I like this tribe's beliefs___avengers, and shrunken heads___They have a sense of humor...
regards,
p.s.
How about some science now, on the science threads...?
__________________ "To develop the skill of correct thinking is in the first place to learn what you have to disregard. In order to go on, you have to know what to leave out; this is the essence of effective thinking." Kurt Godel "Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live." Albert Einstein "The uncertainty principle is an absolute, finite, universal constant." L.G. "The tick-tick-tick of the cesium atom is a sliding-time-scaler constant of all finite universal motion." L.G.
As I said, I agree with your assessment. It is unfortunate that you may be correct that the materialists may never "get it" (my quotes). However, we should try to communicate these ideas to them to the extent that we can.
LG,
I perceive that you have experience and/or knowledge of the meta-physical. I applaud your willingness to at least entertain the subject. I still believe that dialogue is helpful for us all. For the individuals that are interested in the empirical aspects of the TOE, but might not have the background or language for "intelligent" conversation, might we not nurture their curiosity rather than ridicule it??
I like the idea of invisible darts... kind of like invisible acupuncture!!
" There is no such thing as a dumb question." - most of the teachers I've ever had
LG,
I perceive that you have experience and/or knowledge of the meta-physical. I applaud your willingness to at least entertain the subject. I still believe that dialogue is helpful for us all. For the individuals that are interested in the empirical aspects of the TOE, but might not have the background or language for "intelligent" conversation, might we not nurture their curiosity rather than ridicule it??
I like the idea of invisible darts... kind of like invisible acupuncture!!
yours,
dr.w
Dr. W., the trouble with metaphysics is, that when it becomes scientific, it's physical... I yet see no way around this___empirical is empirical, it seems to eternity... Only time will tell... Yet, I so far, accept only a physical photonic fundamental substance theory and logic. I don't see it changing. I see it as physical photonic motions all the way from FS to spirit...
Lloyd
__________________ "To develop the skill of correct thinking is in the first place to learn what you have to disregard. In order to go on, you have to know what to leave out; this is the essence of effective thinking." Kurt Godel "Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live." Albert Einstein "The uncertainty principle is an absolute, finite, universal constant." L.G. "The tick-tick-tick of the cesium atom is a sliding-time-scaler constant of all finite universal motion." L.G.
The spiritualist and the metaphysics people assume that the materialist and scientist know nothing of their discipline. That is only their illusion to justify thinking we do not understand them. Most of us have “been-there-done-that” and have evolved beyond it. We have found that creating a reality based on what we don’t know, only leads to a reality of myth, magic, and superstition.
David... evolved?? Anyway, back to matter being every thing in a void... Would you explain to me how a void (if it is a true void) can contain anything? (kidding) I have always been fascinated by the concept of infinity. If infinity is "infinite", does it have boundaries? Is there an "edge" to the universe? The problem with wrapping ones brain around this idea is akin to trying to model 3 dimensions on a 2 dimensional surface... or 12 dimensions in 3D. It's hard to "know" that what one is modeling is accurate. I suppose that this is where the math is helpful. I knew I should have paid more attention in Mrs. O'briens algebra class!!
Hi Dr. W;
I would suggest that one should wrap their brain around the actual meaning of “DIMENSION” as being “a quantitative measure” and not as some extra reality of existence. Do you really believe that a 2 dimensional surface exists? To have a surface you must have an entity of volume (3D); these are unrealistic mind games used to explain mathematical abstracts. The real problems are the misconceptions and improper uses of the terminologies. The other problem is that people believe that these type of explanations make them appear to be intelligent; just another case of the emperor’s new cloths.
However, we should try to communicate these ideas to them to the extent that we can.
Linear Mode
