[Marko]

We, humans, have the privilege of consciousness (self-awareness) and thus the privilege of „real existence“. But have you ever wondered what happened during the evolution period (Australopithecus – Homo habilis -Homo erectus - Homo sapiens (Sapiens + Neanderthal)), was there some trace of consciousness, or everything until Homo sapiens is based on pure instincts, thus without „real existence“?

Please discuss this topic, every comment is welcome!

[Guille]

Consciousness is too big to be understood by itself, and too small to understand itself (paradoxical and yet true). I think consciousness derived from the realizing of humans that they are and exist and have difference and virtues. When we recognized ourselves as individuals and personalities, apart from the sub-conscious awareness all animals have of being an example of a species. According to paleontologists and anthropologists, this came from those men that weren't the strong ones of the group, or leaders, but that were funny and mysterious. These two properties took them to develop personalities.

[Mr. Nobody]

I view consciousness as an emergent quality of organization, biological or not. Therefore, self awareness should come in degrees in accordance with its assembled structure.

[Marko]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nobody I view consciousness as an emergent quality of organization, biological or not. Therefore, self awareness should come in degrees in accordance with its assembled structure.

When I said consciousness, I meant „I think therefore I am“ kind of consciousness. Other living beings (plants and animals), non-biological structures can be indeed well organized and complicated, no question about that. But in this topic I wanted to concentrate on Homo sapiens consciousness, and at which point in evolution this phenomena appeared.

Originally Posted by <<>> According to paleontologists and anthropologists, this came from those men that weren't the strong ones of the group, or leaders, but that were funny and mysterious. These two properties took them to develop personalities

I agree with this, but again when that happened? My opinion is that this may have happened in some early society of Homo sapienses, not before because our DNA structure (although similar to many other species) is unique and therefore I don’t see any other candidate for the „ I think therefore I am“ kind of consciousness at the moment.

[Mr. Nobody]

Sentient consciousness happened once we became aware of death and invented religion. Before graves we did not ponder existence

[Guille]

Originally Posted by Mr. Nobody Sentient consciousness happened once we became aware of death and invented religion. Before graves we did not ponder existence

That would be a good explanation. During our life we tend to discover more things by contradiction than by themselves. Finding death and stop of existence lead to the discover of what life and existence are.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by Marko I agree with this, but again when that happened? My opinion is that this may have happened in some early society of Homo sapienses, not before because our DNA structure (although similar to many other species) is unique and therefore I don’t see any other candidate for the „ I think therefore I am“ kind of consciousness at the moment.

Yes, our DNA structure is unique, but many DNA structures can lead to intelligence. Ours has been the first and only one on this planet, but this could change. And in the same documentary I heard that the funny-mysterious properties were fundamental, the experts also said that there are new discoveries of species which are not Homo sapiens, but similar variations, and that did have a big brain and could have gone to school and university and been intellectual.

[Marko]

Originally Posted by Marko I agree with this, but again when that happened? My opinion is that this may have happened in some early society of Homo sapienses, not before because our DNA structure (although similar to many other species) is unique and therefore I don’t see any other candidate for the „ I think therefore I am“ kind of consciousness at the moment.

Originally Posted by <<>> Yes, our DNA structure is unique, but many DNA structures can lead to intelligence. Ours has been the first and only one on this planet, but this could change. And in the same documentary I heard that the funny-mysterious properties were fundamental, the experts also said that there are new discoveries of species which are not Homo sapiens, but similar variations, and that did have a big brain and could have gone to school and university and been intellectual.

Originally Posted by <<>>

I think we have similar views on this point. If you think on Neanderthalensis, this is what I was thinking about (Note that Homo sapiens includes Homo sapiens sapiens and Neanderthal, as a sub-groups of Homo sapiens). Or do you think that there is some other sub-group of Homo sapiens very similar to H.s. Sapienses and Neanderthal but still a bit different?

I am looking forward to your answer!
Regards!

[Guille]

Originally Posted by Marko think we have similar views on this point. If you think on Neanderthalensis, this is what I was thinking about (Note that Homo sapiens includes Homo sapiens sapiens and Neanderthal, as a sub-groups of Homo sapiens). Or do you think that there is some other sub-group of Homo sapiens very similar to H.s. Sapienses and Neanderthal but still a bit different? I am looking forward to your answer! Regards!

Well, I believe there must have been a middle point between Neanderthal and Homo sapiens sapiens. There must have been, because the difference is too big. This middle point type of sub-group is not a particular different thing, just sort of like a middle point, of evolution: a lot of evolution doesn't happen so directly as from 1 to another, so a transit species is very probably to have been there.

[Marko]

Originally Posted by <<>> Well, I believe there must have been a middle point between Neanderthal and Homo sapiens sapiens. There must have been, because the difference is too big. This middle point type of sub-group is not a particular different thing, just sort of like a middle point, of evolution: a lot of evolution doesn't happen so directly as from 1 to another, so a transit species is very probably to have been there.

Indeed, I think this middle point existed. Still there are few puzzles: there would be very interesting to know something about the relations of these two sub-groups (Homo sapiens sapiens and Neanderthal). Also, the big mystery is how Neanderthal vanished from the face of Earth. They had bigger brains, they were stronger then we were, but they are gone. This is a hard work for the scientists because there is not enough evidence at the moment about migrations and life of both sub-groups.