Evolution Since Human Intervention

[G_burnett]

If we look back to Euro evolution there has to be a consider to birth control. After man moved out of Africa there must have been a long period of separation for the cellular loss of lanolin in euro evolutionary skin color changes. Or was this a quick change mutation?
Some years ago they took orbital penetrating radar photos to discover a north African valley filled in by sand in the equiv of the Grand Canyon in size.

Was this the real garden of Eden? The lost fertile start of human population expand and changes root developmental area?

Somewhere up the line of hunter gathering groups, either man or woman found that when eating certain herbs they did not have babies. This would have been way before man was even thought connected to the event. Mother Earth, remember, was the creator, wide hips and big breasts, the God that gave forth young … Man had nothing to do with it. Woman of course spilled the beans and we have had to suffer the blame ever since. There is nothing like a screaming kid and mother as you are leaving the den to make you feel guilty … hunt a little better perhaps or travel a little bit further into the wilderness for discovery, open up a bar … domesticate a wolf that will not talk back to you so much …
Yes woe-man if we looked back far enough we would indeed see that most all human development was caused by the female of the species… IMHO kind regards graham

[labelwench]

There are historic records of Egyptian women using a pessary (a vaginal suppository) made of various acidic substances and lubricated with honey or oil, which may have been somewhat effective at killing sperm.

Asian women may have used oiled paper as a cervical cap, and Europeans may have used beeswax for this purpose. The condom appeared sometime in the 17th century, initially made of a length of animal intestine. It was not particularly popular, nor as effective as modern latex condoms, but was employed both as a means of contraception and in the hopes of avoiding syphilis, which was greatly feared and devastating prior to the discovery of antibiotic drugs.

Various abortifacients have been used throughout human history in attempts to terminate undesired pregnancy. Some of them were effective, some were not; those that were most effective also had major side effects. One abortifacient reported to have low levels of side effects—silphium—was harvested to extinction around the 1st century.[7] The ingestion of certain poisons by the female can disrupt the reproductive system; women have drunk solutions containing mercury, arsenic, or other toxic substances for this purpose. The Greek gynaecologist Soranus in the 2nd century suggested that women drink water that blacksmiths had used to cool metal. The herbs tansy and pennyroyal are well-known in folklore as abortive agents, but these also "work" by poisoning the woman. Levels of the active chemicals in these herbs that will induce a miscarriage are high enough to perilously damage the liver, kidneys, and other organs. However, in those times where risk of maternal death from postpartum complications was high, the risks and side effects of toxic medicines may have seemed less onerous. Some herbalists claim that black cohosh tea will also be effective in certain cases as an abortifacient.[8]

Aside from abortifacients, herbal contraceptives in folklore have also included a few preventative measures. Hibiscus rosa-sinensis, known in Ayurveda as a contraceptive, may have antiestrogenic properties.[9] Papaya seeds, rumored to be a male contraceptive, have recently been studied for their azoospermic effect on monkeys.[10]

During the medieval period, physicians in the Islamic world listed many birth control substances in their medical encyclopedias. Avicenna listing 20 in The Canon of Medicine (1025) and Muhammad ibn Zakariya ar-Razi listing 176 in his Hawi (10th century). This was unparalleled in European medicine until the 19th century.[11]

The fact that various effective methods of birth control were known in the ancient world sharply contrasts with a seeming ignorance of these methods in wide segments of the population of early modern Christian Europe. This ignorance continued far into the 20th century, and was paralleled by eminently high birth rates in European countries during the 18th and 19th centuries.[12] Some historians have attributed this to a series of coercive measures enacted by the emerging modern state, in an effort to repopulate Europe after the population catastrophe of the Black Death, starting in 1348. According to this view, the witch hunts were the first measure the modern state took in an attempt to eliminate knowledge about birth control within the population, and monopolize it in the hands of state-employed male medical specialists (gynecologists). Prior to the witch hunts, male specialists were unheard of, because birth control was naturally a female domain.[13]

The propagation of the species poses a far greater risk to the female of the species than it does to the male. Interesting thought that virtually all women have an opportunity to contribute to the future gene pool while not all men will be selected for such opportunity.

Except in cases of non-consent, and those cultures where marriages are 'arranged', the woman has a greater say in such outcome.

The successful rearing of children requires a male with a broader range of skills than our typical stereotype.

Making babies is simple.

Raising compassionate and intelligent human beings is a more daunting task.

[G_burnett]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZIfyXc8RWk&NR=1

QUOTE=labelwench;110789]......Raising compassionate and intelligent human beings is a more daunting task.[/QUOTE]

this is where we forget in rationalization that these children are going to come into there own some day. Do we want them to have what our opinion is or judge on there own?
One way can lead to stagnation and entropy and less then life itself ... one way can lead to observation of good and evil and black and white and right and wrong ... judgment made for there own so defined all is out of the shadows and we evolute to better and bigger things ... it is only as daunting as we make it ... for them. IMHO kind regards graham

[labelwench]

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZIfyXc8RWk&NR=1

QUOTE=labelwench;110789]......Raising compassionate and intelligent human beings is a more daunting task.

this is where we forget in rationalization that these children are going to come into there own some day. Do we want them to have what our opinion is or judge on there own?
One way can lead to stagnation and entropy and less then life itself ... one way can lead to observation of good and evil and black and white and right and wrong ... judgment made for there own so defined all is out of the shadows and we evolute to better and bigger things ... it is only as daunting as we make it ... for them. IMHO kind regards graham

My reference to 'compassionate and caring' refers to how uncommon it is these days, to find children that have known an intact and extended family unit as a basis for learning a value system of sharing and healthy interaction.

The 'daunting task' speaks more to the difficult choices faced by the parents in securing the required financial resources to accommodate, nourish and educate their children, while still having some time and energy to spend with their children and their significant other.

As yet another child of a broken home, abused by a stranger, and having also participated in the rearing of youngsters from nappies through to adolescent, many of whom were likewise experiencing the separation of their parents, my personal frame of reference has observed child-rearing as a daunting task, for the parents, unstable and painful for the children, all ages.

That children should have opportunity to grow up safe and be given opportunity to learn and frame their own opinions, would be the hoped for outcome.

Unless one has experienced compassion and love, one cannot know how to extend it, would be my thoughts.....

[G_burnett]

In the past the Eurasia plains were decimated of wild life by the population grow. Out of food ... we grew it more and more and domesticated food animals. In the North Americas we have been here for only twenty thousand years or so from across the Bering straight and went south from there to central and south America. With the population grow from a gene pool of only six females it was quite amazing. They did the same thing here to a good degree that was on it way to wipe out of natural big animals. grow of food was taking place and domestication too. when the ice got to melt and the land bridges all over the world were under water, England from Europe, Much of east China seas, and only fifty miles to Australia ... much changed from the isolation of land masses that did not vary till boats were used more and more. there are some odd ball early boat use in the Indian Ocean by a gene pool to far apart to be anything more then design by travel by boat the boat did not change much to human developement till very recent history. The only real thing that has been the major cause of near all evolution is the nature of the human species in areas of sex and violence. ... From the necessity of upper chest breathing to facilitate adrenalin and fight or flight to survive that developed the pleasure rush of violence when the fighting was done the survivor felt winning to then giving it to his woman ... we are a violent creature of habit that has not changes in thousands of years and if it does we would cease to be a human race. ... sorry peacenics.
kind regards graham

[labelwench]

...we are a violent creature of habit that has not changes in thousands of years and if it does we would cease to be a human race. ...
Originally posted by G_burnett

We are the nature that Nature has given us, agreed.

Nature both nurtures us, and challenges us, in the same breath. Life is a constant battle in the preserving thereof, though we may at times, lose ourselves in the paradox of the beauty that continued existence affords, for those moments are the very reason that the battle is worth fighting.....

[G_burnett]

jez you are poetic today ... kind regards graham

[G_burnett]

this link seems good for this thread ... enjoy its a long one.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqxENMKaeCU

[labelwench]

this link seems good for this thread ... enjoy its a long one.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqxENMKaeCU

Amazing images and commentary. Thank you for posting this. I shall also carry it over to the 'Money thread', with acknowledgement to you. Shall be sending it to a lot of my friends as well.

[labelwench]

This seemed rather interesting when I awoke and shall delve into this fellows thoughts a bit further....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaY9k4-W0cc

Author and researcher Michael Cremo discussed the evidence for "extreme human antiquity." Texts in ancient Sanskrit described previous civilizations that had high technology and he said he's found similar material across a number of ancient cultures. Cremo suggested a number of civilizations, far predating ones from the last 10,000 years, have come and gone, wiped out by various earth changes. According to different wisdom traditions, humanity goes through cycles such as Bronze and Iron Ages or what is called yugas by the Hindu. Evidence in the form of human fossils and artifacts, such as found in sedimentary layers dating back millions of years, contradicts the current theory of human origins. Yet Cremo has found most mainstream scientists are closed minded to his data, and seek to protect their power and the status quo. A few have been more receptive, and he has presented his work at prestigious venues such as the Royal Institution in London. He also touched on his notion of human devolution-- that people have devolved from a state of higher consciousness into a baser, more material reality.