Eastern vs. Western Thinking...

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Just to let you know the East doesn't wear any special halo...

Eastern vs. Western Thinking

I saw this post at the Klatch and it got me to thinking about a somewhat similar conversation I had with a professor of religious studies and a campus minister who also has a doctor in theology.
Now the Klatch post is talking about denominational differences within Christianity but this is not my concern. One of the links from this post led me to this:

In an interreligious dialogue, this crazy wisdom has an important theological meaning. It implies that the participants realize — as mystics also do — that even their best words fall far short of the divine reality, so far short as to be somewhat ridiculous. This insight undercuts distinctions that are very precious to the West: correct/incorrect, secular/sacred, wisdom/folly, purity/pollution. It thus points toward what mystical theology calls the coin - to be opposites.

What this paragraph refers to is a very Eastern way to look at the divine. As it was explained to me by the aforenoted PhDs, what if we are imperfect at sensing the divine? In other words, humans see and hear in a limited spectrum. However, just because we can’t see or hear something in another spectrum does not mean that it does not exist.
So on a similar note what if we cannot fully sense that which we would describe as divine because it’s out of our range?
Interesting thought experiment that’s full of problems. Even the PhDs admitted this. Here’s but a few:

• How do you define “divine” if you cannot detect it? In other words: How do you know this?
• How can you even posit this idea if you are imperfect at sensing that which you are talking about?
• How does this notion of “divine” even square with traditional Western religions?
• How does this idea fit with Western science?
• What is to be said of religions with notions of salvation?

Here’s where my Western thinking snaps into place and I inevitably invoke Bertrand Russell’s Tea Pot:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

From a Western perspective this is where the Eastern mystic’s notion of “divine” breaks down. Back to the light analogy:

Scottish physicist James Clerk Maxwell’s development of a set of equations that accurately described electromagnetic phenomena allowed the mathematical and theoretical unification of electrical and magnetic phenomena. When Maxwell’s calculated speed of light fit well with experimental determinations of the speed of light, Maxwell and other physicists realized that visible light should be a part of a broader electromagnetic spectrum containing forms of electromagnetic radiation that varied from visible light only in terms of wavelength and wave frequency.

The point being is that Maxwell et al went from hypotheis to theory and they did so through experimentation and the scientific method. In other words, while not actually “seeing” this other spectrum they were able to verify that it does indeed exist. (and if you doubt me then please toss your microwave oven out the window because it’s voodo magic)
So I guess these are the questions:

• Is Eastern thinking wrong?
• Is the analogy posed to me by the PhDs even a good one?

~BCP
Note: The WordPress WYSIWYG feature is apparantly jacking up the formatting in this post. I don’t have the time or patience to fix it right now but I am aware.
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2 Responses to “Eastern vs. Western Thinking”

1. <LI class=alt id=comment-1219>Antoine Says:
   August 17th, 2006 at 9:05 am Interestingly enough, Russell’s teapot scenario can just as easily be applied by Creationists to the subject of evolution. Especially the part that goes “If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.”
   Creationists today certainly get labelled as eccentric, etc., etc.
   I’m just sayin’.
2. BCP Says:
   August 17th, 2006 at 9:25 am The short version is that evolution–much like the electromagnetic spectrum–went from hypothesis to theory and did so based on experimentation, logical conjecture, etc. Whereas the mystical divine has not. i.e., absence of evidence is not evidence for existence.
   I’ll let someone else take this further because I’ve covered it elsewhere on here, too many times. (just search for evolution etc. from the search window)
   Regardless, what I was trying to tease out is the whole Eastern or mystical approach to the divine. Despite the many problems I see with it there is a small part of me that finds it interesting. I suppose this is why I keep visiting it–especially with the aforementioned PhDs.
   Western notions of God, the divine, etc., pretty much have run their course with me. No fertile ground here for me.
   ~BCP

[dleviwing]

Hi Lloyd;
Are you attempting to inject scientific rationality into a spiritual forum??????

[mkirkpatrick]

Eastern thinking is far older and much,much,wiser than the west,who are still in the infant
class,and have barely learned to walk,let alone chew gum at the same time!


regards michael.

[dleviwing]

It is very unfortunate that the human race has degenerated in its wisdom over the past millennia. Our ancestors were superstitious and ignorant Michael; is that what you are suggesting we admire? Do we need to take any chemical enhancers to help us become enlightened? It’s only MHO Michael, but I think you are quite foolish.

[mkirkpatrick]

Well there we will have to agree to differ Dave,today there are still many supertitious
and ignorant people,who also take drugs,probally more than long ago.

The ancient Egyptians were harldly ignorant,as the built the pyramids which still stand
after 3 to4 thousand years,I very much doubt that anything built by this present lot
of modern builders will last a century!

India,China,Persia,Egypt,all had knowledge and a understanding of natural science,some
far in advance of this present day.

You seem blind to the wisdom and knowledge that existed then.

When you talk about those ancient ones using drugs,you should really look at the
modern culture,look at the state of affairs in your own country,drive by shootings,usually
fueled by crack cocaine,there were notmany drive by shootings then Dave.

Then further look at you age,when you were leaving college,many of the science fraternity were using LSD and going on psychedelic trips and talking to dolphins,much
like Mr Leary!
So please give it a rest about the ancients and drugs okay!
regards michael.

[dleviwing]

To judge the human race on the cesspool vermin is rather narrow minded of you Michael.

I hope you are not comparing the skills required to build a pyramid as being more advanced than today’s construction marvels.

Science is advancing the human race to the point that we will eventually correct nature’s genetic mistakes. Whose model of the perfect human being do you think we should use?

You speak of wisdom as if it were exclusive to those with spiritual convictions. Wisdom is more of an ability to recognize right and wrong beyond the rules and teachings of a society. Wisdom can only be taught to those who seek it. This is the primary philosophies presented in most theologies. Strip away the fear tactics of political control and what remains is the wisdom of the human intellect.

[mkirkpatrick]

To judge the human race on the cesspool vermin is rather narrow minded of you Michael.

I hope you are not comparing the skills required to build a pyramid as being more advanced than today’s construction marvels.

Science is advancing the human race to the point that we will eventually correct nature’s genetic mistakes. Whose model of the perfect human being do you think we should use?

You speak of wisdom as if it were exclusive to those with spiritual convictions. Wisdom is more of an ability to recognize right and wrong beyond the rules and teachings of a society. Wisdom can only be taught to those who seek it. This is the primary philosophies presented in most theologies. Strip away the fear tactics of political control and what remains is the wisdom of the human intellect.

I hardly think of millions of drug users in your country and mine,plus most of the western
world as narrow minded dave!And yes I am saying that they were far more advanced
then in some ways,than we are now,and further Dave,the pyramids are STILL standing
after thousands of years,how long do you think your great big skyscrapers will last??
Wisdom belongs to the wise Dave,whoever they are and from whatever background
they spring from,they are not necessary coming from those with spiritual convictions.

And lastly science is doing nothing to advance the race,evolution is doing that nicely.

regards michael.

[dleviwing]

You seem to live in your own little world of bliss Michael.

[mkirkpatrick]

You seem to live in your own little world of bliss Michael.

Were that true Dave I would be most grateful,however I live and work where bliss
seems light years away,more like manic madness,and deluded mutterings from the patients I care for,I have both feet firmly on the ground,not planted in mid-air as some
I work with do!

The east has the wisdom,the west has limited knowledge.

regards michael.

[Infinite Consciousness]

To judge the human race on the cesspool vermin is rather narrow minded of you Michael.

I hope you are not comparing the skills required to build a pyramid as being more advanced than today’s construction marvels.

Science is advancing the human race to the point that we will eventually correct nature’s genetic mistakes. Whose model of the perfect human being do you think we should use?

You speak of wisdom as if it were exclusive to those with spiritual convictions. Wisdom is more of an ability to recognize right and wrong beyond the rules and teachings of a society. Wisdom can only be taught to those who seek it. This is the primary philosophies presented in most theologies. Strip away the fear tactics of political control and what remains is the wisdom of the human intellect.

Wisdom is knowledge applied - knowledge is awareness of our consciousness as the "Medium that IS the Message." But we do not see our consciousness as the medium because our thinking has become another medium and we lose all awareness of our consciousness and identify with thought as the medium.

The so-called wisdom of the human intellect is false - intellect is a property of mind and its thinking - and mind is known to be "The Great Stupid" causing all of humanities suffering.

Wisdom is conscious awarenes or knowledge of consciousness itself per se and the conscious reconnecting of our awareness back with its source the soul or "conscious spirit" within us which is a "separate entity"and is Unchangeable Permanence.

Knowledge is learning this fact and "Wisdom" is applying the scientific methodology of meditation (i.e. concentration) in the eye-focus to merge in and be one with this ultimate Truth. THAT IS WISDOM !

MAN--KNOW--THYSELF !