What came first: The Consciousness or the Matter?

[austintorn@aol.com]

The egg contains the DNA of the parents.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

And the two parent's DNA, creates and fertilizes the egg...

Oh, what a vicious cycle of a circle life is...

And how does DNA form anew, when quantum mechanics forbids quantum cloning...? The $64,000 question...

There's only one answer of inanimate to animate__Incoming em fields/waves/frequencies, photons, bosons etc., create positrons to electrons and neutrons to protons anew__as there's no other way for the cells to split and grow, since electrons and protons are prohibited by the Pauli Exclusion Principle of cloning, plus all the quantum laws of fermions not being able to super-position...

The magic world of photons'/bosons', etc., inter-actions with all the existing geo-chemo-bio-particles__light spectrum frequency reading the elemental chart of the birthing cavities, sequencing and cloning what they pass over or through, while all c-velocities are reduced by the chemistry of the amniotic fluids, as these new chiralling motions spin up new RNA/DNA proteins and whatnot... Ever wonder why DNA is a double helix...?__just maybe two by two of 'positrons to electrons and neutrons to protons...' Of course we can't leave out the foundations either__the squarks and other squeakers...

There's no true mystery here__just a simple scientific method by nature herself...

It's a long, long, long time cumulative inertia of all the matter-wave-motions__Just as is gravity__a cumulative frequency distribution...

[melanie]

Consciousness (I am a chicken) Matter (this is my egg)

I'm going to cheat and say both, but if I had to pick one, I'd say the chicken. It takes one to lay the egg right?

Which ever way you look at the riddle - One is the Other

What is matter? - Never mind.
What is mind? - No matter.

The quest continues, a saga without beginning, a story without end.

[melanie]

There's no true mystery here__just a simple scientific method by nature herself...

A mystery unto itself.

[melanie]

The search for reason ends at the shore of the known;
on the immense expanse beyond it
only the sense of the ineffable can glide.
It alone knows the route to that
which is remote from experience and understanding.

Neither is amphibious:
reason cannot go beyond the shore,
and the sense of the ineffable
is out of place where we measure, where we weigh.

_______


Citizens of two realms, we must all sustain dual allegiance:

we sense the ineffable in one realm;
we name and exploit reality in another.

Between the two we set up a system of references,
but can never fill the gap.
They are as far and as close to each other as time and calendar, as violin and melody,
as life and what lies beyond the last breath.

The tangible phenomena we scrutinize with our reason,
The sacred and indemonstrable we overhear with the sense of the ineffable.

A. J. Heschel

[Rybo]

Melanie, matter( physical ) precedes thought. It is only via our physically sensorial, awareness experiences that we have a physical something to think with and to think about.

.."I experience a physical something ergo I exist"....Rybo

No physical something then there is no access to metaphysical mind. Rybo

[melanie]

Melanie, matter( physical ) precedes thought. It is only via our physically sensorial, awareness experiences that we have a physical something to think with and to think about.

A canvas is nothing without paint.

The senses are my palette.
Painting images of life... upon this clear still void.

[Rybo]

Mel, the "canvas" and the "paint" are both physical, as is the painter. The "void" surrounding you, and all humans is superficial, as that superficial void is filled with air molecules, EM-Radiation( photons ), neutrinos, bacteria, viruses, gravity etc......

Stillness is and illusion as the physical( fermions and bosons ) = energy ergo energetic ergo motion ergo frequency etc.....

The senses are physical and sense other physical things.

That the finite physical Universe is physical, is the greatest illusion of all, barring the illusion of access to a partial-free-will. Life is good, except when its not.

[melanie]

Mel, the "canvas" and the "paint" are both physical, as is the painter. The "void" surrounding you, and all humans is superficial, as that superficial void is filled with air molecules, EM-Radiation( photons ), neutrinos, bacteria, viruses, gravity etc......

Stillness is and illusion as the physical( fermions and bosons ) = energy ergo energetic ergo motion ergo frequency etc.....

The senses are physical and sense other physical things.

That the finite physical Universe is physical, is the greatest illusion of all, barring the illusion of access to a partial-free-will. Life is good, except when its not.

I agree in principle with what you are saying Rybo.

The physical is sensed, but there is no 'real independent entity' here to whom these senses are arising, there's just the arising of the senses, appearing, seemingly, apparently sensed as physical.

The senses make sense of these sensations and 'an entity' is born, but it is non other than a phantom?

What do you think?

[melanie]

Could be then that Matter and Consciousness are the same thing.

Matter is the contents of Consciousness - Consciousness is the contents of Matter.

Same difference.


Both Matter and Consciousness / Physical and Non Physical arise concurrently with one and other in the only time and place there is and that is now nowhere.