What is an Atheist?

[Robert]

An Atheist is one who believes in Atheism--the state either of being without theistic beliefs, or of actively believing in the non-existence of deities.

My question is -- Does an atheist necessarily disbelieve in realities in which other kinds of intelligence may flourish. As an example, Jane Roberts claimed to have channeled for a benevolent spiritual entity known as Seth. Her best known book was called Seth Speaks . Assuming the channeling sessions took place during which Seth appeared to speak through Jane Roberts I find three possibilities:

1. She was putting on a show and made everything up.
2. She was in some kind of trance where another part of her unconscious brain took control of her speech.
3. A entity from another reality connected with her and was able to speak through her to others present.

I lean towards #2, but would an Atheist necessarily reject #3? To believe in such things outside of ones senses does not necessarily equate to believing in a creator. Does an Atheist reject a creator as well as other forms of intelligence outside our physical domain?

[Guille]

As an atheist, I believe that I can give a true answer to the questions you ponder.

First, we must define strictly and correctly what atheism means. Atheism is a (no) theism (god-ism). Which means that an atheist is a person that doesn't believe in god. This is the only direct implication of being atheist. Then, there are different kinds of atheism, but all of the implications that each atheism requires is directly relative to god. For example, strong atheism is not only not believing in god but also believing that god can be proof to not exist.

Secondly, we must state other features to explain more explicitly what all is about. I believe that each person has a "scale of believability" (SOB) which is defined, between others, by the "scale of provability" (SOP). These scales are directly proportional.

Atheists have a scale of believability which is, usually, stricter than theists (please let me know if this is insultive in any form, and I will cut it). For atheist, the concept of "god", or at least what god is for them, doesn't get a positive grade in their SOP, and thus, doesn't get a positive grade in the SOB. Not only the idea of god is analyzed by these scales, many others are also studied by them. And, because atheists have usually stricter SOBs and SOPs, many other ideas don't get positive grades, like, for example, we could say: luck, magic, astrology, soul...

So, most, if not many, of the atheists, won't believe that number 3 would be the correct idea. But again, this is a general majority view, because atheism doesn't imply the deny of the idea of soul, other realities and existence... There is a strong argument currently going on between atheists, to define if atheism implies both not believing in god and in the soul, or if only god (because of the similarity of some of the characteristics of the two).

I hope these paragraphs help to understand the nature of atheism.

[Guille]

Apart from what I posted in the previous post, I, personally, think that the person who has gone through this phenomena/event, is either:

1. crazy
2. been affected by something that can be explained scientifically
3. really had an experience with other realities, but this conclusion I will only come uo to after having proved that the other possibilities are not possible, and thus, by absurd reduction, this is the correct one.

[Robert]

Weak atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of deities while strong atheism is the belief that no deities exist. Therefore, a weak atheist may think the existence of deities is unlikely, based on evidence. But a strong atheist would close the door to the possibility of deities. I'd probably classify myself as a weak atheist. To not consider possibilities closes our minds to evidence that could be useful in our quest. For example, consider a phenomenon that is observed that seems to indicate that a deity exists. The strong atheist would disregard completely such evidence. One whos mind is not shut to such possibilities, may explore the phenomenon further and find, upon closer examination, key evidence that unlocks the mysteries behind an existing phenomenon that is not related to deities at all. A theist, seeing the same evidence may jump to the conclusion that deities exist without scientifically investigating the phenomenon, and thus miss out on the key evidence that could have been uncovered.

Your SOB and SOP scales make perfect sense to me. In general, when someone has a strong belief that something is true, and presented with evidence that supports their belief, they tend to have a much lower, or less strict SOB. I think this is a natural human tendency, provided via evolution, that we should be aware of in our investigations.

I think atheists generally are disbelieving in the soul, other realities, other realms of intelligence, and extra-sensory matters because they seem to be associated with the existence of God. I don't think these areas should be necessarily be associated with God and should be seriously investigated. But they should be investigated by someone not "willing to believe" or, in other words, by someone with a stricter Scale of Believability.

[Guille]

I think your last paragraph is very true. Atheists ussually asociate opther realities and soul with god. To make correct/perfect SOB and SOP studies, we should study each separately, but we are humans, remember, and we usually (our mind) like to make connections and relationships between things that we learn, know, or think about. So if our mind knows about the concepts of soul and god, then it finds similarities and relationships, and ends up judging them both by bi-party. I, personally, tried as much to judge each differently.

[Mike 5]

Dr Jonathan Miller put a show on British TV last week on this subject. Which forced me to some interesting personal conclusions.

Firstly, Robert, an atheist believes there is no God, but clearly sees there is intelligence sentience and so on. It is perfectly possible to simultaneously say God is dead or never was, and in this for example purely mechanical matrix of appearances and so on, consciousness intelligence sentience whatever might exist without a body, or telepathy could be mechanically transmitted, by mechanisms not currently explained.

The point Miller made and I tend to an ever stronger version of this, is that most people in society disbelieve. Don't bother to protest or fuss, and in that, have no interest in absurd obligations and rituals and theories of any kind.

My mother is an interesting case. A devout card carrying atheist, a mathematical humanist, now nearing her final doorway and despite clearly experiencing her own mother talking to her soon after "passing over", my mother froths at the mouth at any religious whiff, it simply is repugnant to her. Clearly this is delusional. Emotion often masquerades as logic.

I am relaxed about religion, I welcome mormons and jehovas for a cup of tea, and randomly persuade them to take up astrology or whatever I have read about recently. The mormon revelations happened over several years always on the Autumn equinox, so the planet was a precise place astrologically, as if a lump of mechanical residue "spoke" to Joseph Smith only when the planet reached that precise spot. Which I find very fascinating. They soon give up on me, because I could undermine their more simplistic ideas with facts and some convinving theory I won't even remember a week later.

My mother hates such intrusions as if her faith might be lessened by discussion. That is an atheist, a believer in space and time being a certain way.

Human Design is possibly an atheistic theory of reincarnation, a godless mechanics of astral beings and so on, by the way. I'll post on that some time maybe, it is really interesting.

An Atheist is one who believes in Atheism--the state either of being without theistic beliefs, or of actively believing in the non-existence of deities.

My question is -- Does an atheist necessarily disbelieve in realities in which other kinds of intelligence may flourish. As an example, Jane Roberts claimed to have channeled for a benevolent spiritual entity known as Seth. Her best known book was called Seth Speaks . Assuming the channeling sessions took place during which Seth appeared to speak through Jane Roberts I find three possibilities:

1. She was putting on a show and made everything up.
2. She was in some kind of trance where another part of her unconscious brain took control of her speech.
3. A entity from another reality connected with her and was able to speak through her to others present.

I lean towards #2, but would an Atheist necessarily reject #3? To believe in such things outside of ones senses does not necessarily equate to believing in a creator. Does an Atheist reject a creator as well as other forms of intelligence outside our physical domain?

[mkirkpatrick]

I remember my grandfather saying thatwhen he was in the front line in the Somme in the firstworld war,that there was not many atheists in a foxhole
when you were expecting either to be shot,blown up,or maybe have the taste
of cold steel thrust into your guts,but that was then!A good friend of mine was
a surgeon,who was an atheist,he did not believe in a god,but oddly he believed
in the healing power of nature,he would often say,I can open them up and sew them up but nature does the healing of the wound.I am not an atheist,but I do not get involved in any relgion,or sect,for me it is evident all around and in
particular in the wonder and beauty of nature.


kind regards michael.

[Guille]

Russell was atheist until the day he died when he was 98 years old.

[dleviwing]

An Atheist is one who believes in Atheism--the state either of being without theistic beliefs, or of actively believing in the non-existence of deities.

My question is -- Does an atheist necessarily disbelieve in realities in which other kinds of intelligence may flourish. As an example, Jane Roberts claimed to have channeled for a benevolent spiritual entity known as Seth. Her best known book was called Seth Speaks . Assuming the channeling sessions took place during which Seth appeared to speak through Jane Roberts I find three possibilities:

1. She was putting on a show and made everything up.
2. She was in some kind of trance where another part of her unconscious brain took control of her speech.
3. A entity from another reality connected with her and was able to speak through her to others present.

I lean towards #2, but would an Atheist necessarily reject #3? To believe in such things outside of ones senses does not necessarily equate to believing in a creator. Does an Atheist reject a creator as well as other forms of intelligence outside our physical domain?

Robert: An atheist with knowledge of physical reality would reject #3 with a vengeance. 1 and 2 totally apply.
Michael; are you sure you are not confusing atheist with pacifist.
BTW: Mike5; I like the way your mother thinks.