number of souls in the universe

[Nobody]

How can anyone be sure that something exists if it has no form, mass or energy?

And how can anyone be sure that they truly know themselves?

[dleviwing]

Someone is insane when they hear voices. If they claim those voices are god, then they become saints. Provide proof of the soul and this thread can be moved to a science forum.
The problem with believers is that they also believe they have the right to impose their faith on others even if it means the use of force and violence.

[r.p.bibra]

Someone is insane when they hear voices. If they claim those voices are god, then they become saints. Provide proof of the soul and this thread can be moved to a science forum.
The problem with believers is that they also believe they have the right to impose their faith on others even if it means the use of force and violence.

Who said anything about 'hearing' of voices? Relax; don’t overreact, bad for health. if logicians---who believe Nature is controlled by ‘supreme-intelligence’ of whatever form it is—have the patience to tolerate all kinds of idiosyncrasies of wild intellectual fantasies, the so-called ‘rationalist’ too should give space to reason. There is ‘intelligence’ in the nature, all agree on that. Intelligence begets intelligence, nothing can be born(created) out of ‘chaos’. Could deranged minds discover fire,wheel,zero,gravity,relativity,computer & what not? If Galileo& Copernicus were persecuted by your forefathers, it was because of the non-compatibility of the religions of the time for not keeping pace with science! There is one ‘thing’ called etiquette in the western culture, which is also taught in the schools, perhaps it is forgotten now, otherwise you would not have used the word ‘insane’ for a person who is a student of literature!(by the way he has also authored 15 books, which are highly acclaimed by the intellectual elite& some are available in the u.s.a too) It will be news to your intolerant brain that ancient Indian ‘thought’ was not based on some ‘revelations’ or mythological tales/parables but based on six schools of thoughts& only one amongst them subscribed to non-dualism(now you won’t understand about ‘non-dualism!), all others did not believe in the ‘existence’ of God or in its incarnation in physical form. If you criticize or want to refute others viewpoint, firstly do your homework. Ls. was once like you; he wanted to prove the spiritualists as the race of ‘hoaxes’. But the first thing he did was to study thoroughly their treatises/philosophies& prepared a comparative study ‘paper’. He found that, though, there was a lot to be said on the prevalent religions but as for as spiritualism is concerned their ‘viewpoint’ ---truth about reality—is as good and fresh as was thousands of years ago. A sample:
“In the beginning when/There was no before/There was neither being nor Nonbeing/Neither space nor time/Not even the sky beyond/Neither death nor Non-death/No distinction/Between night and day/No protection by anyone/Only shadows/In the absolute dark/Were concealed by shadows/In the ocean of nothingness/That one arose through the power of heat/By its own propulsion/The nameless one, enwrapped in the void/Breathed./And then there was/The Big Bang.
“Primordial sound in space/Reverberated for how long/No one knows/Speech does not know/Who inspires speech?/The broken silence had/Soothing impact/Slowly and slowly/It all cooled down/Galaxies were formed/In the dark recesses/A milky way crowned by /Suns and the moons/Millions of stars appeared/And amid this ordered chaos/There floated into being/A tiny planet---our earth.
“The cosmic forces formed/Cyclical patterns/Air water and biospheres/Gave off heat and fumes/Life drew its components/From these elements/Galactic to subatomic/Order replicated itself/Life appeared on earth/Governed by one grand principle/Which embraces/Every living being/Insects, plants, animals/And of course Man/Very terse poem written by genes/As a living organism/The universe came into existence.
“From blazing Ardor/Cosmic order came riddled with/Light and Rta, the rhythm of order/From thence was born obscure light/And the ocean with its billowing waves/In the river of life/Everything is attuned to everything/Each part inheres the whole/And the whole embraces the parts/All are connected in a very subtle way/All are parts, none is apart…
“From oceans were born seasons/Patterns emerged…/The same life/Pulsated in butterflies/Circles within circles swirled/And blew apart.
“Rivers flowed into oceans/And oceans misted into skies/The skies reached down/To touch the earth/And eternity could be glimpsed/In a grain of sand/The universe danced/In the ‘artifice of eternity’/And no body can know/The dancer from the dance/For all is governed by Rta/The rhythm of order. ”
Is it a poem from Dr.Hawking.s book? ‘Nay my dear Watson’, it is from the ancient scripture Rigvedh (Nassdiya Sukta of canto tenth) translation by Kailash Vajpeyi. http://spirituality.indiatimes.com.
The Rig Vedh was definitely written/spoken long before any other sacred books of other faiths/religions/philosophies came into being. And this is not a myth! Let the elite ignore, but the ancient Indian ‘thought’ is eternal!
Above is an extract from ls. Latest book “glimpses in reality”. It is a serious food for thought! rest some other time.litle-self..

[r.p.bibra]

Now about your second spanner about supplying you the proof about the existence of soul! Don’t you think we are in a premature haste to know about the ‘existence’ of the ‘creator’ while we hardly know anything about the creation? Nearer home, let alone Nature, our knowledge about our Earth planet is almost negligible. Daily we hear about the devastation on account the earthquakes, typhoons, tornados, tsunami, lightening, flash floods, feminine due to shortage of water, food and fodder. For our daily use we need water, food, quality education, medical care and energy. Most of our needs are still being met by the natural resources, but science has not been able to provide us alternative sources. We know the formula of water, but have we been able to manufacture water! We are still using very crude energy form of fuel, whereas there is inexhaustible solar energy available to us. What we have done to control the fury of the elements? Just nothing! But we a supplying high tech armaments to the poor nations to fight among themselves, instead of supplying them basic necessities of life!
Unless we know about our creation i.e. nature we are not likely to know about its creator. However if you are still insistent there is way. Otherwise to know about higher sciences we are required to have that level of intelligence to be able to fully grasp their content. All living being are embodied with the element of living-force---which is not the quality of nature (perhaps you are aware; the consciousness enters the fetus in the womb of the mother on the 72nd day of its conception. From where does it come? Do you think it comes from nature? Find out the answer? You will be surprised by the answer you get!). As life-force is directly linked to the ‘divine-force’, or it can said it is its direct representative in the body. One has to simply get aware of this divine-force! But it calls for a disciplined life, which in turn is in our own interest. It is a complete science whose results are testable in the laboratory of our body. Divine reality is a physical phenomenon---a biological fact, easily verifiable. It has to be learnt like other disciples of science. A seeker has to go to a teacher for the acquisition of knowledge. Learn it, seek it and you will realize it. Anyway the ls. is ready to guide you to two places in India where you can witness a phenomenon that ‘matter’ is controlled, created and annihilated, merely, by will! Ls. will bear all expenses of boarding and lodging during your stay in our country. If interested he can send you by pm the detailed topography of those places in case you wish to go there independently! You can bring along the latest cameras and body scanners to be doubly sure that no foul play is being enacted. There are no entry restrictions or any fee being charged. It is an open and natural atmosphere and every act is ‘performed’ in a very natural way, not for attracting crowds or their attention. This has been going on for the last over seventy years. Come examine experience and then believe!ls.

[dleviwing]

r.p.;
You are doing nothing more than expressing dogmatic philosophy. Though it may be inspirational to the blissful ignorant, it does not have any credible evidence to indicate creationism. This is also why so many people are susceptible to schemes of the conmen. Proof requires a method of test and measure to validate knowledge. No matter how strong one’s belief, it will not be knowledge until it passes the test of science.
You have found acceptable answers for yourself but you have not found truth. Truth is not determined by the consensus of belief of the majority.

[Tesla]

David,

Heisenbergs' Uncertainty Principle; if you do a wave-like expirement you will get wave-like results and cannot know the phenomenon as particle-like until you observe it as such. Yet unobserved it remains a possibility. You can measure it as one or the other but cannot know them as both simultaneously. What I'm trying to say is this; you know the phenomenon as wave-like (because you've tested and measured) so it does not exist as particle-like because you can't test and measure it as a particle because then you sacrifice it as being wave-like. We know it only as a possibility of being one or the other and that is not definite, it is uncertain.

Furthermore, what about non-local correlation? No space or time involved, no measurements. Yet it has still been validated by science.

"The Final Point is the Observer Effect
The observer effect means that unless and until the moment of observation the universe exists only as a possibility. Until you observe it, in other words without a conscious sentient being, the universe doesn’t exist. This is John Wheeler’s contribution.
Wheeler was a student of Einstein; he is now 93 years old. He is one of the greatest giants of physics of the last century. He says that the universe remains ambiguous, a ceaselessly flowing quantum soup, until a conscious being observes it. The conscious being could be a honeybee or a chameleon, or it could be you. That without consciousness the universe does not manufacture itself into physical form.
The points I have discussed above are the qualities of your soul. Why? Because your soul is not a thing; it is a field of infinite possibilities. Your soul is omniscient, your soul proliferates and embraces uncertainty in order to create, and your soul is co-creating with God. God remains unmanifest unless you participate..."

-Excerpt from Scientist Discover the Soul

Thanks,

Tesla

[dleviwing]

Telsa;
I truly admire your enthusiastic leap into science and all its diversity. You are preaching to someone well beyond your current place on the path you’ve chosen. Until you thoroughly comprehend Heisenbergs' Uncertainty Principle, I would suggest you not use it as support for this discussion – It does not apply in any way. Something must exist for science to apply.

Don’t believe everything that is claimed to be supported by science.
Know it yourself and you can replace me here on the forum. You're off to a great start.

[Tesla]

Thank you David, but what about the non-local correlation? What are your views on that?

Thanks again,

Tesla

PS~It seemed r.p.bribra was taking a beating and that's all I had to offer to ease the pain of the sometimes vicious replies you so effortlessly post. Haha. No offense. I think you should change your signature to mine. Thanks.

[r.p.bibra]

r.p.;
You are doing nothing more than expressing dogmatic philosophy. Though it may be inspirational to the blissful ignorant, it does not have any credible evidence to indicate creationism. This is also why so many people are susceptible to schemes of the conmen. Proof requires a method of test and measure to validate knowledge. No matter how strong one’s belief, it will not be knowledge until it passes the test of science.
You have found acceptable answers for yourself but you have not found truth. Truth is not determined by the consensus of belief of the majority.

ls. Would not like to engage in any fruitless ‘exercise’ of the mind, though intellectually he is fully competent and well equipped, as throughout his life, he has been dabbling in world of literature! It is field a field& where he would have loved to ‘show’ his expertise, had he been in his early twenties. That urge to transform others, merely on the strength of theoretical knowledge is gone, and instead, the thrust of his energies is now focused inward. Brother it is a free world& each is free to channel r/his brain towards their chosen paths. Why fret and fume! You have unnecessarily involved yourself in a thread which is not your forte. Better spend your valuable time& energies in the fields where their effects are fruitful and constructive. Souls, supreme-intelligence, consciousness, supra-consciousness, awareness, like subjects are not nuts& bolt where your brain is at home! Ls

[r.p.bibra]

when an aspirant opts out the fielf of sensual world, the first casuality is r/his ego.ls,s only worry is, he might not have caused any pain to the one who over-reacts over those things whose abc he does not understand. be all happy in the revelleries/vagaries of the mind, as the ls. has had his fill aeons ago! love&regards.ls.