[Guille]

Originally Posted by michellemfry I would agree with you, but I happen to love the reactions that go on. I wish I had worded that differently. Also, I notice you are full of mass...you are not this nothing that you speak of.

Well... True, humans have time, mass, space... The more the best, but it's impossible to hve them all high, although they are nto inverselyl proportional, it is logically deduced that if you have a lot of mass in society, it means you don't ahve much time for yourself, you have too many things. Or if you jave a lot of time you have little space, for if you ahve managed to leave your life for yourself, you haven't managed to have a big space to cover... These are the kind of thought that take me to pessimisma nd negative views of life, we are all limited too much. The way I manage to get rid of being a pesimist continuous person is because I live every nano second of my life, and dont' let time to consider, for if I conside I'm negative.

[subversion]

Ahh, I see your point. SO if we lived in a negative world then constantly assuming only the best things would lead one to the wrong conclusions. Hmmm, I guess that means it's a good thing we live in positive existence huh?

You see, when I say "assume the best things" I mean it in two senses, because the word "best" is a profound word that connects two meanings and makes them synonymous. The meaning of the best assumption in a scientific sense means the best and scientifically most logical assumption one can make, but in another altruistic sense the best assumption is the assumption that leads to the most positive conclusion. This is a marvelous correlation of the notions of favorability and scientific correctness which is strangely inherent in the definition of the word best. So if we just understand the holistic meaning of the word best, we can catch a fleeting glimpse of everything.

You see the theory of everything is a statement of positivity, because it is the best theory. The theory of everything is the absolute physical theory which describes the makeup of time and the universe, description of forces, etc., but it also is in the same right a righteous philosophy that is literally the best possible mode of thought. These are not two aspects of the same theory, these are the same aspect. For example, take these definitions which are directly derived from the TOE

everything=good
nothing=bad

Now we naturally equate these things in our mind but we are scared to realize that this is more than just intuition, this is actually true according to the positive existence we live in. Therefore the theory of everything, according to itself, is also the good theory, or rather, the greatest theory. This may sound campy or cheesey but it really is scientifically true. Besides which, why are we complaining to be living in positive existence?

Originally Posted by Robert For the purpose of being jolly, happy, and content this is a very good rule. It is certainly no fun being around a pessimist. So, in general, I think this is a very good rule. However, for the purpose of understanding the Theory of Everything, I think this is a very bad rule. To assume the best thing, will cloud your judgement, placing greater value on the evidence indicating goodness and lesser value on the evidence indicating badness. To want a result, or to hope for a certain result makes us see things that may not be there, or interpret evidence with a slant towards our hope. I propose a better rule, "Let us seek the truth and follow the evidence wherever that may lead, and then have the courage to believe it". This is like going to the Doctor and the doctor discovers you have terminal cancer with no hope for recovery. Does the doctor tell you the happy news, that you will live for another 20 years? Or does the doctor tell you the truth, that you will be dead within a month. Do you want the best news or the truth. I want the truth and the courage to believe it. Of course, the truth is sometimes equivalent to the best news. See, I'm an optimist afterall

[harmonygirl]

as much as I am an optimist, I don't think that the TOE can be viewed the "best theory", I think (at this stage anyway) it should be viewed as the ONLY theory. I am a little cautious about putting value judgments on this sort of endeavour. As I mentioned in one of my other posts, my (embryonic) TOE is harmonic and can't be conveyed through language. There is no right or wrong to this, it just is. Currently, I think the only way to include emotions and logic is through harmony (truth). However, this may change as I read further posts on this site....

[subversion]

the only thing is the best thing by default. That's the law of positivity, and that's how the TOE relates morality to reality. Everything is the only thing so everything is the best thing. It's just the best assumption to make.

[harmonygirl]

I don't want to quibble but this is important to me. When you put value judgments on things, you are automatically creating something that doesn't fit in the value. The TOE right now is automatically the best and also automatically the worst. When and if another comes along, if we embrace the hierarcical notions contained in "best" and "worst" we will be inclined to compare and contrast instead of seeing similarities and trying to harmonize. This is my bugaboo.

[mjgeddes]

Let me pitch in with my two cents.

I rather suspect that a real TOE will not conform to any of the current pre-conceptions of either hard materialist science on the one hand, or religion on the other. I think it would most likely be some kind of *synthesis* of science and spirituality quite different from anyone's preconceptions. I would hope that the TOE would deal with values and that there are some values which (if not objective), are at least *universal*, in the sense that they are not just human creations - that there is some kind of purpose outside mere human creations and we can discover what it is.

I've actually been thinking hard about the form a TOE might take for something like 3 years now (of course, I only recently discovered these forums). The summary of my current thinking I recently posted as an article - 'The Mathematico-Cognition Reality Theory' (MCRT), which I would hope gives a demonstration of the kind of thing that *might* be possible as regards as a synthesis of science and spirituality. Link to my theory:

http://www.toequest.com/forum/toe-theory-articles/1338-the-mathematico-cognition-reality-theory-mcrt.html

As regards the effects a TOE may have on the world, I have some suspicions about this - which I won't share because I wouldn't be believed! Let's just say that I think someone in full possession of the TOE could use it to provide a practical demonstration that would instantly convince every-one on Earth that the TOE is correct. This 'demonstration', I believe, would change the entire world beyond recognition virtually over-night: think every good dream you've ever had multiplied a million times for the sort of thing I'm hinting at here.

Here's a quote from my theory that hints what I'm getting at here:

"If the theory is correct then the schematic tells us, in very general terms, how to build a mind."

Hope I'm not being too mysterious here. Enjoy thinking about the TOE. I'm confident that sometime in the next 20-40 years someone will crack enough of the TOE to bring about something wonderful. And may be, just may be it will be based on some of my own ideas - I can always hope

[michellemfry]

...But how not to destroy one as well. It is part of the anything goes world that one should be free to destroy another's psyche in the field of battle, the field of business, etc., but what if we were to find out that that is crossing a line that should never be crossed. That there is something sacred in all of us, that it is our duty to prepare and protect one another. Wouldn't that be nice, after all?

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by subversion the only thing is the best thing by default. That's the law of positivity, and that's how the TOE relates morality to reality. Everything is the only thing so everything is the best thing. It's just the best assumption to make.

You appear to assume rightly my friend,may the toe be with you?

kind regards michael.