[Guille]

This is something which I believe that most toequesters have thought about previouslly:

Should we try to develop the TOE the earlierst possible, due to the fact that many lifes will be saved and/or improved or even enlarged, or should we not develop the TOE because most probably it will destroy, conclude and make worse many lifes?

This is an ethical question, in my opinion. And the only opinion which I have about ethical questions is that ethics doesn't exist and all ethics are right and wrong at the same time. I don't opinionate about it. But I would really liek to see what others think. Will the TOE be more good than bad? Will it save more lifes than loose?....What do you think on these and other ethical questions about the TOE?

[force5]

I don't think it much matters on the world stage. I think most people will believe either what they were taught to believe or wish to believe. For example, if the TOE proved that GOD did not exist. Do you think this would be the end of faith? I don't think so.

Just my thoughts.....John

[Guille]

Originally Posted by force5 I don't think it much matters on the world stage. I think most people will believe either what they were taught to believe or wish to believe. For example, if the TOE proved that GOD did not exist. Do you think this would be the end of faith? I don't think so. Just my thoughts.....John

Neither do I. So you are a TOE reductionist (maybe the name isn't very good, I've just invented it) which is someone that believes that the power of the TOE is reduced. But although I agree in this case, I don't in most, because you have chosen especifically the hardest thing to do, which has actually been done for the last time a long time ago, now it's impossible in a general worldwide scale: change the religious believes. But if we take any other kind of believe, the are definatelly less hard on one's mind. And the TOE will make a huge impact on society, jsut as have all great ideas and theories done in physics and philosophy since cartesian rationalism to quantum mechanics.

[subversion]

Great topic Guille, it's about time somebody asked this.

Let there be no doubt, the TOE will be THE most monumental event in history, and even this downplays it's universal significance. It will be as important as other great theories, but at the very least all other great theories will be like a mere grain of sand in the giant hourglass that is the GUTOE, as you so name it.

Thus being this greatest and most righteous of things, the TOE will give more power than an infidel could possibly imagine (excuse my religious sounding terminology, but by infidel I mean one who has yet to grasp the THeory of Everything). Power unequatable will be within our grasp, humanity will live for eternity, and time will be our whim.

It is my job on earth to see to it that this power is respected, cherished, and used to it's full benefit. So when you ask now or never, well that is a question easier asked then answered, for while I am friend of humanity, humanity has it's own self destructive enemies, who will try to clutch the TOE within their evil greedy hands and use it to their own gain. So remember, patience is a virtue, for revolution is hard earned. It is well earned though, revolution, and it will set the stage for the golden age and the advent of the TOE.

Make no mistake Guille, I am here to fight for freedom, and to herald the TOE in the light of fareness. So to answer your question whether the TOE is good or evil, I would have to say, it depends. You have correctly guessed that it has equal propensity for both, and this makes the quest all the more treacherous.

[Guille]

Sub,

True, infact, if the GUTOE had more bad than good or more good than bad, although having some dificulties, it would be possible to conclude if it's better to develop it now, never, or later. Or even maybe before, if the GUTOE had really a lot more good than bad. But as the percentages are equal, maybe not in number of things, but at least in the importance of the sum of these things. The answer is hard even if you do have the GUTOE. Einstein mayde the special and general theories of relativity, but he never knew how many good things it gave to humanity, until he observed how practical physicists, mostly inventors and engineers, developed items based on these theories.

[dleviwing]

It has been said that Nicolas Tesla had knowledge that has never been presented to the general public. Could it be that he knew the TOE solution? One quote of his that I find disturbing is: "I know how to split the Earth".
The same questions and predictions were posed with the development of nuclear power.
The TOE may or may not bring about undesirable changes, but it will take more than mankind's understanding of nature to destroy her creation.

[subversion]

ha ha, nice quote dleviwing. AAAhh old radio shows, the best!

Anyway, concerning Nicola Tesla, I think it is quite likely that he may have actually developed the T of E. He did develop a theory of gravity that was never released correct? From what I understand, most of these documents are classified by the CIA, yet another excuse for me to hate the big brother. I agree, it would take a lot to destroy nature, but the TOE would make it just that much more easy. I have confidence though, the TOE will be implemented so as to allow us the best method of living, one which will be sustainable into the hereafter indefinitely. So long as everything goes as planned, it'll all work out just fine.

[force5]

Originally Posted by subversion ha ha, nice quote dleviwing. AAAhh old radio shows, the best! Anyway, concerning Nicola Tesla, I think it is quite likely that he may have actually developed the T of E. He did develop a theory of gravity that was never released correct? From what I understand, most of these documents are classified by the CIA, yet another excuse for me to hate the big brother. I agree, it would take a lot to destroy nature, but the TOE would make it just that much more easy. I have confidence though, the TOE will be implemented so as to allow us the best method of living, one which will be sustainable into the hereafter indefinitely. So long as everything goes as planned, it'll all work out just fine.

You bring another long lasting debate to mind. That of free will versus predetermined events. How do you think the world would change if it was proven that everything is pre-determined.

[TinyTree]

Originally Posted by <<>> Should we try to develop the TOE the earlierst possible, due to the fact that many lifes will be saved and/or improved or even enlarged, or should we not develop the TOE because most probably it will destroy, conclude and make worse many lifes?

I suspect the TOE, once discovered, will not have any direct applications for hundreds of years. (I of course could be wrong). But it would fundamentally have to tie together gravity and quantum mechanics. The only real threat from it is if it described some physical phenomena (like a black hole) which was readily creatable, and then someone created it.

But since we already have that in reality (the atomic bomb) it seems much more likely that we would do ourselves in with atomic bombs than with any new theories- why would we need them to influence our future trajectory?

That is to say in other words: we already have enough knowledge of the universe to rip ourselves to shreds, and have done so repeatedly, how would a new mechanism make any difference whatsoever, unless it was much easier to accomplish? (Which I doubt).

So the theory of everything will likely not impact life for hundreds of years, but I suspect at some point it would have some profound impact on interstellar travel, which is probably hundreds if not thousands of years off.

The only exception to my statements are if a religion springs up around it, then that could change everything (for either better or worse, but probably both)

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Guille Should we try to develop the TOE the earlierst possible, due to the fact that many lifes will be saved and/or improved or even enlarged, or should we not develop the TOE because most probably it will destroy, conclude and make worse many lifes?

Of course, it is my view that the TOE be developed and understood, i.e. explainable in clear and understandable language, as soon as possible; hence this website. Whether people believe it or not is another question. Most people prefer to be right rather than to know the truth. An ego thing I guess. Thus, if one believes in a deity, he will continue to do so, and if one is an Atheist she will continue to be one. It takes time to change ones beliefs that are so deeply ingrained in ones nature. This is one topic I'd like to bring up at this Saturday's Chat Session - Thoughts -- Where do thoughts come from? Why are we so resistant to new ideas? Why do we sometimes believe in nonsense? How our environment, religious and cultural upbringing, education have such a profound influence on our thoughs and beliefs.

Let's assume that the TOE contains such conclusive evidence and is so easily explained that everyone instantly believes in what it explains reality to be. Whether the TOE makes lives better or worse will depend on what it says about reality. For example, if it says that there is a spiritual reality where we go after death and are judged on our deeds during our life, then given a new life that we reincarnate into, and suffer the negative karma of our previous lives, then we would certainly become nice, loving and generous people.

On the other hand, if the TOE says that there is no spiritual reality, no intellegent design, no consequences to our actions other than what society imposes, then the only thing keeping us from becoming bad people might be our conscience or empathy for other people, but would this be enough? I think that over time, perhaps generations, this feeling of guilt would subside since we would now see each other as "stupid sacks of protoplasm" as barkster likes to refers to himself. We might still be influenced by the illusion that people are more than sacks, but we would realize it is only an illusion. I think that would be very depressing for most people -- to realize, beyond any doubt, that your life is essentially meaningless, that there is nothing more after death, that you react to life's events in a fixed way based on the neural pathways in your brain. This would be no different from waking up and suddenly realizing that you are a robot. Are we robots? Are your thoughts simply rationalizations for actions which you had no control over in the first place? Come find out at this Saturday, November 12th, at 3pm in the Flash Chatroom. Carly will entertain guests preceeding the Chat Session. Hope to see you there.

--Robert