Loooking for philosophers

[davidgow77]

The problem with looking for a meaning in our existence is that we find that "meanings" are given rise to by processes, rather than objects. As an example, say a bird flies overhead. Would you ask "what is the meaning of the bird?", or "what is the meaning of the bird flying in that direction?"

Clearly, the meaning of the bird is known only to what created it (whether this be god, or just sheer evolutionary chance), but the meaning of why it is flying in a particular direction is more easily discernable. Maybe the meaning of the process (the bird flying in that direction) is to find food, or to mate, or to find warmer weather. In this respect, finding meanings in processes is the only way to philosophically analyse situations. If you want to know the meaning of the bird, you are asking the wrong question; you should be asking "what is the purpose of the bird?"

To take this to a conclusion, many people ask "what is the meaning of life?" without understanding this point. If you ask yourself "what is the purpose of life?" then you could come up with anything you want (the principle of free-will in action), so then you would need to ask "what is the purpose which unites all life?" ----

... after careful consideration, looking at all religions and philosophies, I can quite firmly say that i believe that "the purpose which unites all life is the abolition of suffering."

[zeroca]

Is there any connection between free will and pre-determinism (i.e. the fate)?
On a personal level:
An old saying - If you sow (endeavor) a try (an attempt), you’ll reap a habit, if you sow the habit, you’ll reap a character, if you sow the character, you’ll reap a fate. Maybe the fate has some inertia and one must apply to it repeatedly to put it in motion.
We can compare somehow free will with consciousness, but a fate with sub consciousness, but anyway they aren’t the same.
For instance, when you are watching TV, your consciousness is concentrated on the film, but your sub consciousness – on your habitual preparing of a comfortable sitting, or on smoking, on eating, or on another “automated” action. When crossing the street sometimes your consciousness is busy with talking to your child or another person, but your sub consciousness – busy with automated reflex of finding good conditions for crossing, and your sub consciousness is trained by several thousands of deliberate attempts (conscious attempts) of crossing the “dangerous places”. (That’s called by us practice).
We call the person who has well-ordered sub consciousness a strong-willed, organized, flexible person.
By the way I had been smoking tobacco for 18-19 years, but gave it up 10 years ago and it took me one month to get a conditioned reflex of not smoking, i.e. to get an inhibition of conditioned reflex of smoking by simple method of impact on self-sub consciousness. I don’t know how it will work in case of another person but if anybody needs it I’ll describe it in another post.
There is also collective fate, and the fate on a national and global level. Let’s speak about them another time.

[W. M.]

davidgow77 said:

... after careful consideration, looking at all religions and philosophies, I can quite firmly say that i believe that "the purpose which unites all life is the abolition of suffering."

To achieve this purpose,we would have to evolve into deities, for we would have to have the ability to abolish all pre-determinism, since we never intentionally choose to suffer, if we have a choice. Living under an absolute free-will system, we would never have suffering thrust upon us again.


Zeroca said:

Is there any connection between free will and pre-determinism (i.e. the fate)?

A certain amount of free will can exist within a pre-deterministic system. For example, we did not choose to be born (pre-determinism). But, since we are here, we can make certain decisions concerning our lives, such as where we will live, what education we will get, ect. (free will). A higher power (God,for example) may want us to get to a certain point in our lives, but will allow us to choose which path we will take to get there .

[jimmy71177]

Alot has been said for predestiny. If what we are as life is predetermined, that is by a higher power, is there an objective? Are we unknowingly working torwards something? Are we necessary? Would this power have not the ability to obtain this goal more directly? If this is the highest of powers, Human cogniton would contend that this is unecessary. If we assume all stated above(higher power-predetermination-objective-accuracy of human cognition) my contention is that this is extracurricular for lack of a better term. Mabey we are entertainment or an experiment.Mabey this higher power is not of the highest sort and it has not the highest of abilities. This could describe an alien life, god himself(if you believe there is one) or anything between. These are not necessarily my beliefs but more theoretical conciderations.

[jim barlow]

If I ask you "excuse me sir, where is main street in this town"?
(My purpose is to go there.) This is a legitimate question. It will get an answer and this is what language was invented for.
We seem to be more used to crazy answers than to mistaken questions.
If the answer were "Main street is everywhere" it wouldn't help you much, although he might have confused the concept of street with perhaps air or subatomic particles. Clearly a nono in language use.
I could give a long list of inapropriate questions where - together with their possible answers - the above pattern for sanity, of the first 3 lines, would not be met. Using that pattern your anwer is: the goal, the purpose of life is death.

[michellemfry]

What if life has no meaning? That would suggest to me that meaning is not pre-determined. Although I believe one's inheritance is an individual matter, the absence of pre-determined meaning could be a positive thing.

[jim barlow]

"the absence of pre-determined meaning could be a positive thing."

I think we are in luck there, Michelle. Meaning, syntax, grammar, cultural habits (jokes etc) are parts of our langugage skills.

To be able to use words, somebody said, is like playing chess: moving the pieces. It is a game.

It is incredibly important to humans. Other species have it less developed. The ants I think use chemical smells to coordinate whatever they need to do.

[HappytheStripper]

Although not a well formulated theory - I sorta came to the conclusion that GOD, aside from religion is an acronym:

Genetic/Generic Order of Development

I have come up with many theories in this past year as to the existence of the universe and it seems to be the current life question - why are we here?

Evolution has seen many changes in existence - some chaotic and cataclysmic changes too may I add, however, there seems to be a general order throughout development - so general - it takes a string of scientists and philosophers to find it.

Im have a similar question to yours and would be interested in talking more .............

[michellemfry]

How about God-Good Old Dad, yeah that's Him alright! Sort of makes Him so familiar. Dad, tell me about everything, would you, please?

[jim barlow]

Time may not be something that is flowing. It is like an ocean that is already there. All of it. The future is only that part of the ocean that we don't remember - only vaguely in premonitions and scattered notions about god and whatnot.

But I wouldn't be surprised if we saw ourselves in that rippling mirror changed perhaps, much more powerful and still fighting those old alien enemies that once defeated us and tried to put a usurper in our "skies" for millenia.