[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Mohan.C Michael That is because they took spirituality as the basis they formulated there laws on that. But as I said we need to choose one of them or both of them as one.

I choose both,the more the merrier right?

regards michael.

[Mohan.C]

You may as well say that the more one gets confused, the merrier. So why get confused when we have the choice to be consistent.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Mohan.C You may as well say that the more one gets confused, the merrier. So why get confused when we have the choice to be consistent.

Why indeed my good friend? Nice to see you back online,keep with us bro../



regards michael.

[Mohan.C]

We get confused when we can't decide on a choice. If it a choice of science and spirituality and the choice is science, still it is impossible to leave spirituality because of the way we are raised. There has always been a fear of god thing in our lives. A god who is supposed to be governing all reality (which these days is being called an illusion).

Logic can hold reality together but it cannot hold what is not real i.e our dreams and illusions and premonitions etc etc etc.. which are unreal, for which we try to find a definition and finally conclude that since we can't find a logical answer, then the logic is wrong, when logic fails reality fails. And, so we say reality is an illusion. I know that most of the people these days in the forum would not agree with me mainly because of the fact that, all believe there is nothing or one thing. That is the ever supreme all pervading all governing god who is given a different name called consciousness or awareness which is within us all and needs to be awakened. If it is not awakened then what. Or there's also the popular thing of let it be and leave everything the way it is. If everything was left the way it is then there would have been no discoveries no inventions. All of us should be leaving in darkness because there would have been no electricity.

[Mikal]

I think people misunderstand what is meant by the statement, "reality is illusion" because it is only illusionary in the sense that we have an impending need and urge to become conscious and see beyond its surface goings on to its deepers depths from whence it manifests...it is never on the surface what it really seems to be which in that sense makes it illusionary. It is kind of much like us...situations play out in our environments...they seem to be one thing on the surface to others... but in the deeper levels of us are myraid lived experiences sometimes never brought to the light of day and explained....


peace Mikal

[Mohan.C]

Ok, just because there is more to us than what we are, does not make what we are an illusion. The depth has no meaning without a surface. What is the depth of a lake if the lake has no surface. It is meaningless. The surface is just as real as its inner layers or whatever its called.

[bottomlander]

Originally Posted by Mohan.C Ok, just because there is more to us than what we are, does not make what we are an illusion. The depth has no meaning without a surface. What is the depth of a lake if the lake has no surface. It is meaningless. The surface is just as real as its inner layers or whatever its called.

Agreed.

The difference in the approaches, IMMO, among Science, Philosophy and Spirituality is mainly that:
Science tries to be objective;
Philosophy tries to be objective and makes reasons on some subjective items;
Spirituality depends on (no longer tries to be) subjective persuasions on some subjective items.

As for the surface perception, if we do it with objective analysis and reasoning, the result (or rival options) is much fewer than those created by subjective interpretations.

Objectively speaking, the surface and its inner layers can be unmasked under same analysis and reasoning.
Only under subjective persuasions, the surface and its inner layers could be greatly varied as what a subjective sophist likes.


Best Regards. Bottomlander

[Mikal]

Originally Posted by Mohan.C Ok, just because there is more to us than what we are, does not make what we are an illusion. The depth has no meaning without a surface. What is the depth of a lake if the lake has no surface. It is meaningless. The surface is just as real as its inner layers or whatever its called.

Hi Mohan...I hope you did not misunderstand me here...I am real, my life is real, society is real and the world is real....Just trying to explain why people get into the "illusionary" idea....


peace Mikal

[Mohan.C]

Oh, I really misunderstood your post there. Now, I know what you meant. Thanks.

[Mohan.C]

Originally Posted by bottomlander Agreed. The difference in the approaches, IMMO, among Science, Philosophy and Spirituality is mainly that: Science tries to be objective; Philosophy tries to be objective and makes reasons on some subjective items; Spirituality depends on (no longer tries to be) subjective persuasions on some subjective items. As for the surface perception, if we do it with objective analysis and reasoning, the result (or rival options) is much fewer than those created by subjective interpretations. Objectively speaking, the surface and its inner layers can be unmasked under same analysis and reasoning. Only under subjective persuasions, the surface and its inner layers could be greatly varied as what a subjective sophist likes. Best Regards. Bottomlander

Yeah, and in objective analysis and reasoning there will be no relativity in thoughts but relativity in physical matter. And when there is a real stand point to look at objects in different perceptions, there will be no confusion.
But in spirituality the "personal" influence is a lot even though the necessity of sacrificing the "personal" is highlighted. There may be countable no. of people who have really sacrificed the "personal", but I'm sure they wouldn't preach.